Palm Desert City Council - Special Meeting, December 16, 2025

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[00:09:59] Speaker: Mhm.
[00:10:10] Speaker: Uh, I think Gina will be along in just a moment.
[00:10:36] Mayor Trubee: Okay, thank you.
[00:10:40] Mayor Trubee: All right. Gina's here. We have everyone. Good afternoon, everybody. I call to order the special meeting of the Palm Desert City Council. City Clerk, may we have a roll call, please?
[00:10:51] City Clerk: Council Member Harnik.
[00:10:53] Council Member Harnik: Here.
[00:10:53] City Clerk: Council Member Nestande.
[00:10:55] Council Member Nestande: Yes.
[00:10:55] City Clerk: Council Member Quintanilla.
[00:10:58] Council Member Quintanilla: Present.
[00:10:58] City Clerk: Mayor Pro Tem Perdeto.
[00:10:59] Mayor Pro Tem Perdeto: Here.
[00:10:59] City Clerk: Mayor Trubee.
[00:11:00] Mayor Trubee: Here.
[00:11:01] City Clerk: All council is present.
[00:11:03] Mayor Trubee: Okay. Now we move on to item three, action calendar. Before we begin the action item, I would like to note that members of the public may comment on the item before us. Speakers are generally provided up to 3 minutes, and we have about 54 cards. I think we should be able to accommodate everybody in the 3-minute time frame. Um, well, let's shoot for 2 minutes per person because we're going to go to online comments as well. I want to leave some room for those. So, this is meant to give us a buffer to make sure everybody gets heard because I anticipate a lot of online comments as well. So, we will go down to the 2-minute time frame. Sorry, guys. Yeah, there we are. Speakers are generally provided up to 3 minutes. However, due to the anticipated number of speakers, individual speaking time will be limited to 2 minutes to ensure the meeting proceeds efficiently. The next item is item 3A, consideration of a request for action to rescind City Council Resolution number 2024-038 related to LGBTQ Pride Month commemorations and to amend City Council Resolution number 2018-09 related to diversity and inclusion. May we have the staff report, please? Mr. Cononi.
[00:12:25] Richard Cononi: Good afternoon, Mayor and City Council. Richard Cononi, Assistant City Manager. The items before you are in response to the request for action from the December 11th City Council meeting. At that meeting, staff was directed to return with two action items: an amendment to Resolution 2018-09 to emphasize shared community values, and the rescission of Resolution 2024-38. Those items are attached in the staff report, and with that, staff has also prepared two resolutions for consideration, and I'll wrap it up from there.
[00:13:03] Mayor Trubee: Perfect. Got it. Ms. Harnik.
[00:13:04] Council Member Harnik: Um, I'd like to suggest looking at these. We have two resolutions. It may be in our best interest to bifurcate the two and take them one at a time, and I would turn to the City Clerk, perhaps. If it's not a great idea, I'm open to that, but if it might be more expeditious and more productive—
[00:13:23] City Clerk: —not bifurcating the item until after public comment, and if there is a need to bifurcate because of the vote, then to do so after.
[00:13:30] Council Member Harnik: Okay, thank you very much.
[00:13:32] Mayor Trubee: All right, thank you. So, given the nature of this item, the City Council will take public comment first, followed by council questions and discussions. And I just want to read a little bit, since we have an unusually large crowd today, a few things about how we expect things to proceed. So, we're talking about decorum and civility. And we respect and appreciate members of the public for taking the time to share their comments today, and we want to ensure that everyone is able to speak and be heard—
[00:13:59] Mayor Trubee: —excuse me one moment. Can we... Okay, I guess there's a place for everybody, hopefully. Yeah, thank you, guys. Perfect. Okay. Thanks, Jen. We respect and appreciate members of the public for taking the time to share their comments today, and we want to ensure that everyone is able to speak and be heard in a respectful environment. I ask that the audience refrain from clapping, booing, or otherwise reacting during a speaker's comments. If members of the audience wish to show support for a speaker, we ask that you do so silently by raising your hand with an open palm. Thank you for your cooperation. So, I will now open the floor for public comments on this item. And what I'm going to do today, which is a little bit different than a typical meeting, I'm going to call the names out 1, 2, 3. So, kind of like... or actually, I'll just call the first two, and this way the second person—
[00:15:01] Chairperson: Understands that they're ready to go and we can expedite. They can sort of be waiting in the batter's box, if you will, and we can kind of expedite things that way. So, the first speaker card I have is for a Mr. Jacob Frick. And if you would, when you come to the podium, please state your name and address for the record.
[00:15:23] Jacob Frick: Sure, Jacob Frick, 48420 Arena Court. So, I am Jacob Frick and I'm a gay retired physician from Wisconsin and my husband and I have lived in Palm Desert full-time for the last 11 years and I've always felt safe there until we heard Mr. Perdeto's proposals last Thursday. His first proposal would ban display of the Pride banner on city property. My generation of the LGBTQ community grew up in an environment filled with homophobia. We feared separation from family, loss of jobs, violence, and hateful language. And overcoming the homophobia has required persistent efforts for 50 years and the fact that I have to stand here today and speak to the council shows that we're not finished with this process yet. The Pride banner signifies commitment to supporting LGBTQ individuals worldwide in their battle against everyday homophobia. For queer residents and tourists, this proposal implies you're not welcome in Palm Desert. And even if these proposals don't pass today, significant damage has already been done. The second proposal would remove the word diversity—and I'm going to skip part of my prepared notes because I don't have too much time. Given the demographics of Coachella Valley, Palm Desert businesses could face repercussions if the city adopts the anti-LGBT stance, but there's really no need to change either resolution. Displaying the Pride banner won't harm anyone. And last, I have to say as a city taxpayer, it seems like this effort to banish Pride banners and the word diversity from City Hall is a colossal waste of time and money. Yet someone seems desperate to get this passed because we're hearing about this at a special meeting with short notice only two business days after it was proposed. Thank you for giving me the opportunity.
[00:17:33] Chairperson: Thank you, Mr. Frick. We have next—I apologize, I didn't call the first two names. I'll call the next two names so everybody's ready to go. And thank you for honoring the hand wave to show your support. I appreciate that. Okay, second speaker, Mr. Paul Messink. And following that will be Eugene Williams.
[00:18:00] Paul Messink: Hello. My name is Paul Messink and I live in Palm Desert with my husband. Our address is 39405 Regency Way. We moved here over 10 years ago, in large part because the valley was, is very gay-friendly. My art studio where I work is in the city, and I'm also represented by an art gallery on El Paseo. I've just finished a four-year stint on the board of directors for the Arts Council, which is located here in the city, and I volunteer there about 50 hours a month. So, I work here, live here, generate tax revenues for the city here, and volunteer here. And I feel like this is my home and we have always enjoyed being in Palm Desert. We've never felt marginalized or discriminated against or unsafe until this week. If it's the intent of this proposal to make Palm Desert less gay-friendly, that's working. If it's to make the gay community less visible or more quiet, it's working. If that's the intent of these proposals, please be honest with us. I don't understand the rationale of this supporting unity. Just tell us that you want us to be quiet and then we'll know. If that's not the intent, and I hope it's not your intent, then I don't understand why we're doing this. If residents do object to a Pride flag, maybe they need a little education on what it means to be welcoming of everyone in this city. Thank you.
[00:20:01] Speaker: Thank you, Mr. Messing. Next up, Mr. Eugene Williams. Thank you for being ready.
[00:20:06] Eugene Williams: My name is Eugene Williams and I'm a resident of Palm Desert. I live here with my husband, Chris Gudino. Last month, we were driving to the Pride Festival in Palm Springs. We saw the big banner off Fred Waring that recognized the LGBTQ community in Palm Desert. We both discussed how powerful of a message that was and how great it felt to live in a community that recognizes its diverse population. To find out that the commemoration is now on the chopping block was shocking to the both of us. I am a therapist who works primarily with the LGBTQ community and I understand the importance of how these messages of inclusion can benefit the community for the better. You see, the LGBTQ community is a marginalized group and you should know that very well, Mr. Joe Peredetto. Since you have such gratitude to your LGBT friends and have officiated more than a score of gay and lesbian weddings, you must also know that statistically LGBT people, particularly LGBTQ youth, face discrimination, bullying, and suicide ideation more than their straight peers. LGBTQ young people are not inherently prone to higher suicide risks because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. They are placed at higher risk because of how they are mistreated and stigmatized in society. When you decide to make such a drastic change, it directly impacts our community and sets a precedent for discrimination against us. You say that Palm Desert is welcoming to everyone, but your actions say otherwise. You have set the tone for the direction you hope to take Palm Desert and it is not one that is welcoming to all. Recognizing one group does not prioritize a group over others despite what you say. Recognition is not exclusion, visibility is not favoritism. What that banner represented was safety, belonging, and hope, especially for young people who are watching closely to whether or not they matter in a place they call home.
[00:22:10] Speaker: Terrific. Thank you, Mr. Williams. Okay, next up will be Mr. Greg Fear and following that will be Mr. Todd Beck. Okay, Ted Beck, I believe. Sorry. So, we have Mr. Greg Fear and then after Mr. Fear, we will have Ted Beck. Beg your pardon.
[00:22:34] Greg Feice: Good afternoon. My name is Greg Feice. I've lived in Palm Desert for almost 8 years. Wondering why the proponents of this proposal want to move the city backwards in this manner. I just really can't understand why you're considering this. My wife and I have lived in Palm Desert for 8 years and I've never felt the need to come to a city council meeting. The city has pretty much run itself and very well until now. Now, I am embarrassed by my city. I am not an L, a G, a B, or a T, but I am a strong ally. Obviously, the 24-hour notice was an attempt to get this by without people really noticing or having the time to do anything about it. How did that work out for you?
[00:23:23] Speaker: For a moment, please. Just hold the time, please, Mr. City Clerk. Guys, please just keep the noise down. We want to keep this going in orderly fashion.
[00:23:33] Greg Feice: So, how did that timing work out for you? If this is what you get with a 24-hour notice in the middle of a workday, the week before Christmas, imagine after a year. So many people you had to go to the overflow room. These are your constituents. These are your shoppers who either do or don't come to Palm Desert to spend their money. These are your voters. The voters will remember who supports this proposal and who doesn't. Apart from the immorality and moving backwards that this proposal represents, there are hundreds of comments all over the internet just last night when I looked at it about boycotting Palm Desert shopping and restaurants and even boycotting McCallum, even Big Wheel Tours. So, that's what I have to say. Thank you.
[00:24:20] Speaker: Great. Next up, we have Mr. Ted Beck. And following that, we will have Sheri Johnson.
[00:24:26] Ted Beck: Thank you very much. I don't have any really prepared notes. I wanted to share some of my experiences. I grew up in 1957. My name's Ted Beck. I live at 73810 Cahuilla Road. I grew up in the 1960s and in the 1970s, came into my formative years in the 1970s. Queer people didn't exist in 1960 and '70. I was different from a very early age and I knew that I didn't fit in. So, I'd like to submit to the council today, have you ever felt like there was a room that you've been in at some point that you didn't belong in?
[00:25:00] Beck: That you just felt out of place. We all have, right, at some point in our lives, been in awkward situations. It's just like, 'These aren't my people. These aren't my kind. I can't wait to get out of here.' That's everyday existence for gay men and women my age during that era. We felt very uncomfortable. We had to be an imitation of ourselves. We had to look upon other people and see how they acted and try to act like them. We heard the comments and the slurs and the F-bomb and all the other words. Okay. Mr. Peredetto, your supporters, you have a lot of support in the community right now. They're very vocal. They're a vocal minority. I think that we outnumber you and your supporters, but take a look at their Facebook pages. Take a look at the comments that they make. Take a look at the vitriol that comes out of their mouth when they attack people like me and others in this room. We have to endure that every day. We have to come out every single day. I was at a bar in the Oakland airport on Sunday afternoon. Somebody gave me permission to be gay because it came up during the... 'Oh, it's perfectly okay.' I don't remember asking for their validation. I was at a restaurant that night in Palm Desert...
[00:26:06] Audience: Yes.
[00:26:07] Presiding Officer: Please understand. Thank you. Just show your support with the hands, please.
[00:26:12] Beck: I was in a restaurant in Palm Desert Sunday night, and I don't know whether I was more disturbed by the fact that the woman sitting next to me was very blatant that she said she didn't like living in Colorado because there were too many gays and too many liberals. And I assume she probably hates Black people, too. And I have two Black grandchildren.
[00:26:31] Presiding Officer: Beck, thank you. Appreciate your thoughts. Okay, Sheri Johnson, please, and then we'll be followed by Mr. Ralph Perry.
[00:26:43] Sheri Johnson: Hi, I'm Sheri Johnson of La Quinta. The great sage, Maya Angelou, told us, 'When people tell us who they are, believe them.' We believe you. We believe the four council members who nodded or verbally affirmed support to rescind Resolution 2024-38 and amend Resolution 2018-09 do not support Pride Month. In this fast-paced world of pocket-sized supercomputers, it is not feasible for any of you to claim you're on a learning curve with respect to gay rights and diversity. And so, here we are in 2025 in one of the most beautiful and exclusive cities in California, asking the members of council to cease the bigoted steps to action you've gotten yourselves into. My friends, bigotry is expensive. Shoppers and those who fund many of your revenue sources will show you how expensive your decisions are. Now, let me enumerate how we got here. Number one, a few people called Mr. Peredetto because they felt a pride flag made them feel unincluded. Last Thursday, supported by three other council members, Mr. Peredetto gave staff a directive to provide council with a revised resolution. Number two, Mr. Peredetto then claimed the reason was because the LGBTQ community felt unsafe. Number three, instead of exploring other options or even conducting a study session, the item was fast-tracked into a last-minute special meeting five days later, and here we are. Despite the safety claims, the public has not been presented with strategies to increase public safety resources. Despite claims this council action is strategy or policy, the public has not seen either. Instead, we seem to be witnessing special interests, bigoted interests, worries of a small group of people attempting to weaponize City Hall. If you choose to be a bigot, that's a personal right. Do not involve the government in your personal choices. If you want to be a bigot, use your own money and time, not the government's.
[00:28:45] Presiding Officer: Thank you...
[00:28:46] Sheri Johnson: When people tell you who they are, believe them. Thank you very much.
[00:28:49] Presiding Officer: Okay. Mr. Ralph Perry, followed by Mr. Tom Bogel.
[00:28:57] Ralph Perry: Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Ralph Perry, at 39240 Desert Greens Drive East, Palm Desert. Okay. So, I've been living in Palm Desert for 11 years, and I've been a city volunteer in Parks and Rec for almost five, and I've really enjoyed being a volunteer. It's been a great time. However, I stand against this action against pride and gay rights in the United States of America. This is hurting residents and will hurt the city's bottom line. We have heard reports that people will not spend another dime in Palm Desert. Will folks want to live in a city that's against the gay community? Anyone who votes yes on this proposal will find themselves unable to get reelected. This proposal will have disastrous effect on any politician that supports it. So, question: has Palm Desert shown itself to be against the gay community? Thank you.
[00:29:59] Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr. Perry. Next up, we have
[00:30:01] Mayor: Tom Voigt, V-O-G-T, I think. Yeah, sorry. Uh, followed by Emily Voigt.
[00:30:11] Tom Voigt: Tom Voigt, I'm a resident of South Palm Desert. Um, really disappointing that I have to come and speak on this today. Uh, this decision does not reflect on who we are as a community. The pride flag is not about politics, and this is where I think you got it wrong. Um, this is about not spewing your hateful dialogue, but being inclusive. You've no idea the hornet's nest that you have just opened up. You have no idea how far we are willing to go. You have no idea how hard we are going to organize, and we are going to fight. That fight, Evan, you're going to see that sooner than than most, right? Cuz this is enjoy your last time here, because well, this is going to be it, for sure. This is complete political suicide. Um, the pride flag is about people. It represents neighbors, business owners, taxpayers, who know their city sees them and values them. It's about inclusivity, and inclusivity isn't just a slogan that you just slap around. It's about it's a responsibility that you as council people need to take. I have no idea what you were thinking when you went down this path. On the Joe Rogan report last night, Jeff Rogan, Joe, you said pride isn't working. What the hell does that even mean, pride isn't working? Where, where do you come up with this? It's just shocking. Um, I don't know what your true motivation is, but I do know the fact that you're having this meeting on such short notice, this shows your cowardice.
[00:31:58] Mayor: Thank you. Next up...
[00:32:12] Emily Voigt: Oh, sure, make me go after my husband.
[00:32:14] Audience Member: Evan, you're going to speak.
[00:32:15] Councilmember: Go ahead, Evan. Um, hey, just so you know, without person like that, we do reserve the right, because we want to keep an orderly meeting, to, you know, give a warning. Uh, other tools at our disposal is to clear the room.
[00:32:34] Audience Member: We have a right to express ourselves.
[00:32:39] Audience Member: So, sit. Sit.
[00:32:43] Councilmember: Evan. Yes. Evan,
[00:32:46] Councilmember: Can I say something about this?
[00:32:48] Mayor: Uh, let's just listen to Ms. Voigt and get her words in.
[00:32:51] Councilmember: Thank you. I would like to take just one quick second to say this is a practice. This has been done in the past. This is not only on this issue, and it's not something that the council normally does, but it has happened in the past. And I know this from experience last year. We want to have these conversations. We do ask that the lower we keep the noise, the more respectful it is, so we can get everyone heard. We don't want to go to that extent. We ask that you do this as quietly, so we can get through this. It's not just today. It has happened in the past, and we don't want to have to stop the meeting.
[00:33:27] Emily Voigt: Okay. Thank you.
[00:33:28] Mayor: Thank you. Okay, Ms. Voigt.
[00:33:31] Emily Voigt: Okay, and with that, I'm Emily Voigt. I've lived in South Palm Desert for the last 14 plus years, and I'm here to tell you that I think this is completely unprofessional to schedule such a controversial topic with barely 24 hours notice and in the middle of the day. I've had many many people reach out to me because they couldn't leave their work on such short notice. Seems clear to me that our input isn't important, and you need to know we won't back down.
[00:34:01] Mayor: Thank you. Next up, we have Ms. Uh, Beck— Bex Lorton, L-O-R-T-O-N, and following that will be Dr. Lynn Stott.
[00:34:12] Bex Lorton: All right. Um, I'm a crier, so I'm naming that.
[00:34:17] Bex Lorton: My name is Bex Lorton. And I use he/they pronouns.
[00:34:30] Mayor: Would you like to come back later to finish your time? Okay.
[00:34:34] Bex Lorton: I've called Palm Desert my home for the past 11 years, and I've proudly flown a rainbow flag outside my home for years. I also work at the LGBTQ Community Center in Palm Springs, and in the past year, we hosted two LGBTQ+ events at the Palm Desert Civic Center Park. More than 80 people attended, and they
[00:35:01] Speaker: I felt welcomed and safe, in large part because of the pride progressive banner displayed on the City Hall building. However, even with that, we still had to be mindful and cautious to not have our own flags visible at the events to avoid calling attention to ourselves within the park to keep our community safe from Palm Desert residents. Because actions like this proposal have given Palm Desert residents the power to treat us as less than human. You have encouraged this hateful behavior from those that don't accept LGBTQ people as human beings and as we are. Palm Desert does not always feel safe or welcoming for the LGBTQ+ community. As one of the more conservative-leaning cities in the Coachella Valley, marginalized communities already feel less accepted here. You just reinforced that tenfold. To hear of this proposition is sickening and completely unnecessary. My existence is not a private identity, and I will not walk around in my hometown silenced, shunned, or made invisible. We live in a diverse, affirming, and accepting Coachella Valley, and Palm Desert needs to catch up and be part of that reality. Thank you very much.
[00:36:17] Speaker: Dr. Lynn Stott, followed by Armon. I have one name there, A-R-R-M-O-N will be the next speaker. Thank you.
[00:36:28] Dr. Lynn Stott: My name is Dr. Lynn Stott. I'm not a medical doctor, but I'm a PhD in anthropology, community formation, values, and structures. I'm here today for a couple things, and one is really to talk about how some of this language could take us if we follow it to its just conclusion. If the City Council chooses not to acknowledge or celebrate any group, subgroup, season, or festival on City Hall property, that's one thing, but that means banners in support of Christmas, Hanukkah, Veterans Day, Cinco de Mayo, high school graduation, Black History Month, Hunger Action Month, all those also would need to be excluded, because everyone in Palm Desert does not belong to every single one of those groups. Removing the language from a unanimously passed resolution of more than seven years ago is another terrible, terrible thing, because what it does is it leads towards the erasure of identities of our fellow humans, and that only makes us weaker and more susceptible to autocratic rhetoric and movements. The rhetoric of Great Britain in the 1930s did not work for the United States then, and it definitely does not work for either Great Britain nor the US now. Unity comes through acknowledgement of diversity and appreciation and understandings of differences. Those differences cannot be appreciated nor understood if they are erased or silenced. We are brown, black, white people of many traditions and ethnicities living on native land. Integrated means acknowledging and leveraging our differences to a common strength. It does not mean erasing them. Thank you very much.
[00:38:35] Speaker: Armon, followed by Mr. John Taylor.
[00:38:40] Armon Akrabou: My name is Armon Akrabou. I live at 47857 Sun Coral Trail. One of the council members was on KESQ right when I was getting ready to come here at noon, and that council member said that there was a desire to focus on parks, safety, and fiscal responsibility with no distractions or diversions. This seems to be exactly what that is, a distraction and a diversion, and it's not speaking to the issue that you ran on. When your actions and your words don't match, it's called hypocrisy. I'm going to take a minute to share some personal experiences, because in spite of my youthful look, I am old enough to have experienced some stuff. When I was a sophomore in college, I wanted to join the army. I wanted to be a language translator. I'm good at languages. I would have done a hell of a job for my country. They said I qualified for 125 different jobs in the US Army. The last question in 1977 was, and I'm going to delete the expletives, I was asked if I would rather suck a blank or a blank.
[00:40:01] Speaker: I decided that I would not serve the US Army. Later, I grew up in a very religious household. I thought I would work for Wycliffe Bible Translators to translate the Bible into another language. The only question I was asked about my thoughts, as if I had ever had thoughts about having sex with another man. They didn't ask me if I've ever committed adultery or cheated on my taxes or if I've ever maligned someone. They had one question. It was mind control and it was wrong. Those of you who have no sin, raise your hand and identify yourself.
[00:40:44] Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Mom. Appreciate it. John Taylor followed by Louise. I don't have a last name though.
[00:40:55] John Taylor: Hi, I'm John. I don't live in Palm Desert and I don't have a husband. Seems like everybody in Palm Desert does. I'm wrapped in the pride flag. And I'm wrapped in the love of the Coachella Valley and the community. I broadcast worldwide on KG 106.5 and 92.1 radio and we stream all around the world. And I hear from people who live in places where it is not accepted being gay, where it may be illegal to be gay, where it may be punishable as a crime to be gay. And I hear from those people that listening from their vantage point, it's inspiring when they hear about what happens in the Coachella Valley. Today they heard about something different happening in the Coachella Valley, something that we are not proud of, and Palm Desert needs to get with the program with the rest of the Coachella Valley because we love Palm Desert and we love our LGBTQ+ people. We love our allies. Believe it or not, I was raised by straight people. Two straight brothers, football, horses, I don't know, all of that. It obviously didn't take. There was diversity within my own family. But I had the love of my small unit in my family, and I learned that I could live in a place where I had the love of my community. And living in Palm Springs, Cathedral City, you know that feeling. You get to wrap yourself in that love every single day. And I want Palm Desert to just ditch this dumb idea. I'm sorry to call it a dumb idea, but it needs to go. We need to move on and we just need to go to the light and the love. Thanks.
[00:42:55] Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Taylor. Next up we have Louise followed by Emily Rubin. Is there a Louise available? He has an address on Portola Avenue. No? Okay. We have Emily Rubin followed by a Becky Robinson.
[00:43:17] Emily Rubin: Good afternoon, council members. Thank you for allowing us our public speaking opportunity. My teenage daughters forced me to come today. They're at Palm Desert High School and they couldn't come because this was scheduled in the middle of the day with very short notice. They really wanted to be here. I'm representing my whole family. My wife and two daughters moved to Palm Desert because we were seeking a community where we would feel safe and respected by our neighbors. Although we've lived in California for most of our lives, we've spent several years living in another state where we didn't feel welcome or secure. Returning to California and to a city like Palm Desert represented a return to a place where we knew people would respect one another, or at least we thought, and they would provide a welcoming environment for us and our daughters. In particular, we were impressed with the reputation of Palm Desert High School. It's an incredible school, an incredible community filled with kindness and respect for all. And we came to this community because of stability. The proposal to take away or rescind the recognition of Pride Month feels like a step backward from what drew us back home to California. Changing policies that were designed to create a sense of trust and safety is unstable. That feels like an unnecessary signal of exclusion. Having Pride Month meant that my family was seen and accepted here, but by removing this, feel like we're being told once again, remain hidden, remain silent. This is not a strong community's decision. And for a community that is supposed to be welcoming to many outside visitors, it's what our economy relies on, changing a positive policy like
[00:45:00] Mr. Rubin: Honoring Pride Month will likely change this vibe, bringing unnecessary negative attention to this community. There are lots of choices in the Coachella Valley and we just blew it. Please change your mind on this. I respectfully urge the council to maintain Pride Month in Palm Desert and to continue fostering a community where all families know they belong.
[00:45:20] Speaker: Thank you, Mr. Robinson. Miss—I beg your pardon. Thank you, Mr. Rubin. Next up, Becky Robinson followed by Raymond Leflore.
[00:45:28] Becky Robinson: Mr. Mayor, council members, my name is Becky Robinson and I live in Cathedral City, but my money visits Palm Desert often. My glasses are from Moleskine. I'm going to get my hearing aids from Hear USA. I go to the McCallum. I was there last Sunday. I'll be there again this coming Saturday. But I need to tell you, I have never stepped in Hobby Lobby ever in my life and I never will. I have never stepped in Walmart. I have never ordered anything from Chick-fil-A. And right now I don't go get gas at Arco and I don't go into Target and I will never buy a Tesla. But if you guys decide that you want to do this, I will also never buy anything again in Palm Desert. This is wrong. We all need to stand for equality. We don't need to start dividing people. Our president is doing that enough. Thank you.
[00:46:23] Speaker: Thank you very much. We have Raymond Leflore followed by Daniel Mosavada, Mosavado, Mosavada, who'll be next up beyond Mr. Leflore.
[00:46:33] Raymond Leflore: Thank you. My name is Raymond Leflore. I'm an advocate for the gay community in the greater Palm Springs area with a social media group of 17,000 members across the valley including several hundred right here in Palm Desert who are full-time residents. Mr. Perdeto, my group is normally a very busy group on a normal day. The past five days, you've made my group pure hell with a torrent of concern, worry, and visceral reaction my community's had to your proposal. Bluntly, you have caused tremendous pain. You mentioned that our identities need to be private. Private? I haven't been in the closet since the 1970s. Tantamount to saying we need to all go back in the closet. Is your identity private as a father, as a husband to a straight cis woman? Then why should mine be private? One member responded, 'When my husband and I drop our two kids off at school, how do we keep that private?' Another member said, 'When we celebrate our anniversary at Eddie V's next week, how do you suggest we hide who we are from the bigoted couple sitting next to us?' Drop this proposal. End it today. Stop the hate. You've already incurred a lot of damage, reputational damage, and that's going to continue in a big way to levels you probably not even—can't even conceive of. Please stop on behalf of the entire gay community. And I realize I'm targeting this you, Mr. Perdeto. Mr. Truby, we know you are a big part of this. Okay.
[00:48:39] Speaker: Stop. The two minutes is up. Thank you, Mr. Leflore. Next up we have Daniel Mosavada followed by Sean Harrington.
[00:48:48] Daniel Mosqueda: Hello. It's Daniel Mosqueda. I live at 43907 Carmel Circle. I would have walked here, but it was really hot. I've been here for three years and if you ever have dinner in Palm Springs and you say you live in Palm Desert, they frown. They roll their eyes. But I've always said it's been better. We have a better Trader Joe's and we have a better Las Consuelas. So I love Palm Desert and when I live in LA, like that's where I came from, so I fill my house with guests all the time and I always insist on spending money in this town. So what you're going to see is you're going to see the pink dollar dry up completely. I don't know if I vocalize it, but I'm very much against both of your amendments. So the other thing I want to talk about is, Joe, you seem to be the face of this that you brought it up. I think that there is—gosh, I'm incredibly nervous. I think that I try to be, I try to feel like I don't want to live in a double-down society. I like changing my mind. I like being agile. And I listened to your YouTube showing from last week and I watched your interview on Fred Rogan. And one of the things you talked about was sort of not elevating one part of society from the other. And you know, I think about like I spend every
[00:50:01] Daniel: ...day in this park exercising and walking my dog. And there's a Holocaust survival memorial that's beautiful and gorgeous. So, is that highlighting one group over another? Are you going to say that we need to get rid of that as well? So, if you brought up the fact that there's a lot of violence about LGBT people happening. And you don't get rid of domestic violence by getting rid of marriage. You don't get rid of Hanukkah because of anti-Semitism. And you don't get rid of pride because of anti-gay violence. So, the last thing I just want to mention, um, the pink dollar will have a huge impact. If you don't want to see the McCollum with the spirit Halloween on the top, you really need to like make sure that this doesn't happen. The last thing I'll mention, Joe, I'm in walking distance. If you ever have a want to have a coffee, a beer, an iced tea, a ginger ale, come by. I'd love to host you.
[00:50:47] Mayor: Thank you, Daniel. Appreciate it. Mr. Shawn Harrington, followed by Gary Michaels.
[00:50:55] Shawn Harrington: Thank you. My name is Shawn Harrington, 35933 Wallace Street. My husband and I invested in Palm Desert by purchasing our full-time home in 2024. Until the mayor pro tem's recent action, we've experienced Palm Desert as a diverse and welcoming community. The mayor pro tem has stated that it is not necessary for the city to highlight one community over another. And that principle deserves careful examination. Because when applied consistently, it does not support the recommendation before you. If the city's goal is truly to avoid highlighting one group over another, then rescinding resolutions 24-038 and 2018-09 would require far broader action. Consistency would demand withdrawing funding, rescinding proclamations, and ending city sponsorship of other long-standing recognitions. To be clear, I do not support eliminating any of these recognitions. I raise them as a governance point. I raise them because selective neutrality is not neutrality. The city has long understood that honoring veterans, acknowledging the Cahuilla people, even commemorating historic atrocities, do not divide our residents. They reflect our shared civic values. And singling out LGBTQ recognition for removal contradicts that established practice. This matters because LGBTQ people like me have long been used as a political wedge. Proposals framed as eliminating DEI frequently generate headlines instead of consistency. So, let's evaluate the matter using the mayor pro tem's own campaign platform. On economic growth, actions that signal exclusion carry proportional risk. Public safety, we've already established LGBT, LGBTQ people are at risk. And fiscal responsibility, the special meeting in which we currently sit consumes valuable city resources which are better utilized elsewhere. Thank you.
[00:52:56] Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Harrington. All right, next up is Gary Michaels, followed by Rex Ortega.
[00:53:05] Gary Michaels: Hello, council members. My name is Gary Michaels, 590 Camino Callidad. Um, Merry Christmas. It's always such a great time for spreading cheer and goodwill towards your fellow residents. You have certainly ignited a war against a simple banner and gesture that supports the LBGTQ community. And in Coachella Valley, which is the largest LBGTQ per capita in the country, with tens of thousands of LBGTQ visitors coming with a spending power of 1.7 trillion dollars nationally and worldwide spending power of 4.2. And why? I've heard the word transparent, and I do think it's important to be transparent because any one of you, specifically two of you, any one of you can Google and research, and anyone in this room, and what comes up: the far-right war on pride refers to an absurd increase in rhetoric, legislation, physical intimidation tactics by far-right groups and political figures targeting the LBGTQ community, particularly around pride month or pride symbols. Do another Google search. This pushback aims to suppress LBGTQ visibility, rights, and participation in public life, sometimes through material policy changes and other symbolic gestures. So, please be transparent because it's very easy to do research and see that. We have supported, we've been proud of this community up until this point. And
[00:55:02] Mr. Michaels: I don't feel comfortable if you move forward. There's one thing to do, immediately rescind it. And you issue an apology to the residents of Coachella Valley.
[00:55:13] Council Member: Thank you, Mr. Michaels. Rex Ortega followed by LuAnn Thielk. I hope I got that right.
[00:55:18] Lex Ortega: All right. Hopefully there's not a Rex here, but my name is Lex Ortega. Oh, beg your pardon. I was born and raised in this desert, specifically in Palm Springs. And anyone who is from this desert knows we don't only exist in city boundaries. All right, we live our entirety of our lives in this desert. My padrinos, hello Nina, hello Nino, live in Palm Desert. I have fond memories of visiting them often and going to Mervyn's and the mall with them and my god sister as a child. The first time I went ice skating was at the Palm Desert Mall. Yes, there was an ice rink there. My first cultural festival was a Greek festival in Palm Desert. The first time I went out dancing with my friends as an adult was in Palm Desert. Anyone remember Red 74? The first time I confessed to a friend I had a crush on her and got rejected was in Palm Desert. And the first time a stranger called me a dyke was here in Palm Desert. Mayor Pro Tem, have you ever been called a slur based on your identity as a straight cisgender white man? You say the city's policies are enough to show that Palm Desert is inclusive. However, as a teen and 20-something, I didn't know about who was on city council or what the city's policies were. But I would have definitely driven on Fred Waring and seen a banner that proclaimed that I had belonged if it had existed at that time. Now as an adult, I'm with the LGBTQ Community Center of the Desert. Not of Palm Springs, but of the desert. That's in our name. And we do host monthly programs in this city because it is mid-valley. Much of the programming that we've hosted is new within the past several years. And we have found very welcoming homes in some businesses. How did we find them? By seeing rainbow flags. I urge this council to reconsider the request for action today and reaffirm its commitment to residents who feel othered here. Based on some of the comments I've heard, which in effect amount to, 'Yes, we are inclusive, but we just don't need to be loud about it.' I absolutely look forward to seeing the city put quiet dollars behind supporting diversity and inclusion. Seeing something, anything beyond the thin words cowing to anti-inclusion voices. Don't get it twisted. The bare minimum has always been a flag or banner, and it seems Palm Desert can't even do that right.
[00:57:24] Council Member: Appreciate it. Okay, we have LuAnn Thielk followed by Michael Stafford.
[00:57:32] LuAnn Thielk: Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Mayor and Council. Before I start, I want you to know that I have a very dear stepbrother who is gay and his partner and many dear gay friends. In fact, one who lost his husband last year is spending Christmas with us. However, my husband and I concur with the Mayor Pro Tem. After this, we don't think any banner should be on city property. We should have the American flag and the state flag, period. So, after this, then what group is next? This is just the start, not the end. That's our concern. Where does it go from here? So, we think just the two flags are perfect on our city buildings. Thank you very much.
[00:58:16] Council Member: Thank you. Next up, Michael Stafford followed by Suzy Hauser.
[00:58:25] Michael Stafford: Well, Mr. Mayor, Council, my name is Michael Stafford. I live at 35429 Court Drive in North Palm Desert. It's interesting to follow behind the one and only person that actually spoken out in favor of what you recommended. It's we've been here about an hour so far, and I've only heard one. So, that should send you a message this is a bad idea. You know, there's been a lot of cutback on diversity inclusion since Trump won his second term. And this is another example of that. And it's wrong. It clearly is wrong. City government does not belong in dealing with anything with cultural war issues or wedge issues such as this. You need to be doing what you've been elected for, and that is to improve the quality of everyone who lives in the city. That's for everyone, including the streets, the traffic congestion, and trying to build a better tax base so we can continue to do projects like the new park up in the northern part of the city. What you're doing is really separating people and causing more division. Clearly people have mentioned things about boycotts. I'm not going to go into that, but I do want to highlight exactly to Mayor Pro Tem about your interview you had yesterday. You know, you couldn't articulate why you're doing this. In fact, you really stumble all over yourself and really have no real clear reason why you're doing this, and I'm really surprised at that. If you really mean you want to do this, then why aren't you articulating the real reason that you're doing it? Look, just because there's a small minority that can't stand gay people and don't want any of us here, it doesn't mean it's a right thing to do. It's absolutely wrong. I strongly recommend that the council vote against this resolution in its entirety. You can end
[01:00:01] Public Speaker: it today and end the bad press. Thank you very much.
[01:00:03] Mayor: Uh next up Susie Hauser followed by Jason Byers.
[01:00:14] Susie Hauser: Thank you, council, for letting us speak. And I came here with an idea of what I was going to say, but I've been listening to all these people and I hear two big messages. One is there's a lot of suffering in the past and two, they've lived in Palm Desert and they had no discrimination. They were very happy and they are happy. And what bothers me most of all is hearing people that want to destroy our city based on a banner going up and down and I know it holds more meaning than just a banner going up and down, but that isn't the way to solve this problem. There's a huge distance between the proposal that has been put forth and the way it's interpreted or understood. And I think this needs more actual one-on-one talking instead of people coming up here saying we're going to withhold all our money from the city, punish the city. There's a big lack of understanding. I happen to know Joe personally and I know he's not a gay hater. And whatever these words were that were written or said they need to have more conversation with the people that are hurting and I think you can actually come together on something. But these are all good people and the people up there, every one of the council members, are also very good people. And threatening people and saying we're going to destroy your business or your character is not a way for us to solve this problem. The gay pride movement has helped so many people come out of literally locked closets and they have a lot of compassion and I don't want to see them turn into haters.
[01:02:16] Mayor: Thank you, Ms. Hauser. Appreciate it. Okay, next up we have Jason Byers followed by Kathy Webb.
[01:02:30] Jason Byers: Hello, everyone. My name is Jason Byers. I'm running for State Assembly to represent the people of Palm Desert in this room. I'm here with my boyfriend who just a few days ago got cured of cancer in Palm Desert at Kaiser Permanente. So, thank you, Palm Desert. Couple of points I want to talk about why we celebrate pride, why we have pride month. In 1970, there were a group of people that were not even allowed to let people know that they were gay. The police chief decided that they would raid the secret place that they were hiding and brutalize the people that were there. Well, the LGBT community there in Stonewall decided that they're not going to take it and so in June of 1970, they decided to fight back and we've been fighting ever since and that's why we celebrate pride.
[01:03:24] Jason Byers: The second point is the rainbow flag is not an exclusionary flag. It has all the colors of the rainbow. It's an inclusionary flag. Every person, gay, straight, whatever, is included in the flag. But you know what's not included in the flag is bigotry. That is not part of that flag. So, diversity, we're talking about diversity and diversity is something that should be celebrated. We celebrate cancer awareness month, Native American Heritage Month, Black History Month, Women's History Month. So, why is this month that celebrates great pride the one that's the problem? We've been fighting for years to give ourselves a month and a flag and I'll tell you what, we'll be damned if we let you take them away from us. Thank you.
[01:04:16] Mayor: Thank you very much. Okay, next up we have Kathy Webb followed by Stephen Nelson.
[01:04:21] Kathy Webb: That's me.
[01:04:22] Kathy Webb: Hi, thank you for having us here today. And I have to tell you, I only learned about this about an hour ago. I had a friend get a hold of me and she said, 'This is about DEI.' And as a former CEO of United Cerebral Palsy and the chair of the UCP of the Inland Empire board, I thought, 'I'm coming in and talking about DEI.' But this is not about DEI. Well, it is, but it's also about our community. And so, change of subject from the speech I wrote, I just want to say that, you know, my husband and I retired here six years ago. And we spent an incredible
[01:05:00] Ms. Webb: amount of time all over the state of California. I'm a native Californian, wanted to retire here and we looked everywhere for a place to retire and we chose the Coachella Valley and specifically I'm a resident of Palm Desert because of the diversity of this valley. That was literally the most important thing to us and so we moved here. And so when I come here today and I find out that this is about rescinding something about our pride month and the pride flag, which I am going to go out and buy and put in my front yard as soon as I leave here today, I'm appalled by that. I can't even believe that our city council would even consider something like this. I'm saddened by this. And at the end of the day, it really is about diversity, equity and inclusion. Those are not abstract concepts to me. DEI is not about preference or politics. It's about access to our community. It is about dignity and the dignity of the citizens that live here. We need to raise that flag and it is about whether our cities are designed for all of our residents, not just some of them.
[01:06:19] Moderator: Terrific.
[01:06:21] Ms. Webb: Am I over? Oh, no, sorry. Yeah, I jumped the gun a little bit. I apologize.
[01:06:26] Moderator: But I'm sorry, we have the 2-minute rule today. That's okay. Thank you so much, Ms. Webb. We have next up Mr. Stephen Nelson followed by...
[01:06:38] Moderator: Hey, Stephen. Stephen, what's up? 1 minute. Cool. Okay, we have Stephen Nelson followed by Paula Jo Willis.
[01:06:48] Stephen Nelson: Can I use it? Good afternoon, City Council. Let's be clear from the outset. The pride recognition was never about a parade or a political statement. It was about acknowledging a simple fact that LGBTQ+ residents are part of Palm Desert and always have been. I know this because I wrote the original resolution and worked closely with Councilwoman Karina Quintanilla and then-Mayor Kathleen Kelly to ensure it was thoughtful, limited and responsible. The intent was recognition, not celebration; history, not performance. Mayor Pro Tem Joe Pradetto's motion to rescind that recognition isn't about improving policy or fixing a problem. It's a solution in search of an issue, and it sends the wrong message that some residents are less worthy of acknowledgement than others. Palm Desert faces real challenges: public safety, economic stability, housing and restoring confidence in local government. Revisiting a lawful, carefully crafted proclamation doesn't address any of those priorities. It distracts from them. More importantly, selectively withdrawing recognition from a legally protected community creates unnecessary division and reputational risk for our city. That's not theory. That's basic governance. Every council member has the right to bring forward motions, but leadership is about judgment and focus. This motion fails both tests. Palm Desert works best when it governs for everyone, not when it singles people out to score points.
[01:08:50] Moderator: Thank you, Mr. Nelson. Appreciate your comments. Next up, Ms. Paula Jo Willis, then we have David Powell. Is Paula here? Paula Jo Willis, going once, going twice, no? All right, thank you very much. Next up, David Powell, and that will be followed by David Burrows.
[01:09:12] David Powell: Council members, I'm David Powell, executive director of Desert Business Association, the Desert's LGBTQ Chamber of Commerce. We're 345 members, over 10% are within the city of Palm Desert. For more than 45 years, we've been the oldest LGBTQ chamber. Just 2 years ago, I was invited by the city of Palm Desert to accept the Pride Month proclamation. I stood at this podium with nine local Palm Desert LGBTQ business owners, people who believe in diversity, equity, and inclusion, with some who for years experienced exclusion simply for being gay or lesbian. Many of us in this room have lived through fighting for basic rights others take for granted: the right to marry who we love, to serve openly in the military, to be protected from bullying and conversion therapy, and to receive equal treatment in housing and employment. That history is
[01:10:00] Public Speaker: Why LGBTQ Chambers exist, not because we wanted separation, but because we were ignored, ostracized, and discriminated against for who we are. We created support systems, partnerships, and economic viability visibility both within the community and beyond. While progress has been made, discrimination has not disappeared. The same is true with pride recognition. It serves a clear purpose by saying you belong here. It tells residents, workers, and business owners that they are valued and that they belong. But when that recognition is questioned or removed, or removed, it sends the opposite message whether intended or not. The reaction in the community over the past week makes that very clear. Yet even now, we continue to see negative public commentary questioning that belonging. I also ask you to consider your own city employees, some of whom are LGBTQ. Would any of us want to work in a place where our identity is debated rather than respected? Finally, this is also an economic issue. I do not support boycotts. I support people spending their dollars where they feel welcomed, whether that's through local tourism excursions, buying a home, getting legal advice, or even getting a mortgage. We want to know we are respected for spending our dollars with them. Cities and those who lead them by signaling and conveying inclusion attract talent, investment, and trust.
[01:11:17] Mayor: Appreciate it. We have Mr. Burrows followed by Lisa Bridget. Mr. Burrows? No? Okay. Oh, I beg your pardon. There you are. I recognize that man.
[01:11:42] David Burrows: Good afternoon. My name is David Burrows, and I've been a resident here for 45 years. Unfortunately, I can't vote for any of you or against you because I live in Cuyama Hills, which is in the county, in your sphere, but in the county. I was recruited to come here by Riverside County to be a special ed teacher. But then I moved into regular education at Washington Charter School, and maybe there's somebody who is here and I was your teacher. Anybody? You never know. It's a small town. But I was in the closet then. I couldn't really speak to the staff or to parents about who I am, about my husband, my late husband. And that was tough, but finally, you know, the world has changed because most people in this room, apparently, witnessed some horrible things over these decades against gays and lesbians. I think you all remember that. And now the world has changed. But if this resolution is rescinded, I'm not going back in the closet. I'm going to be who I am. Some of you know me. And I love Palm Desert. So please think carefully what the message will be if you rescind this. Thank you.
[01:13:08] Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Burrows. Next up, Lisa Bridget, followed by Kevin Duncliff. Thank you.
[01:13:19] Lisa Bridget: Hello. Good afternoon. I live at 47970 Venice in La Quinta. I am not part of the LGBTQ community, yet I'm very disturbed and saddened here. I'm a heterosexual, generic-looking white woman. I've been privileged not to have experienced what many of these folks here live with. It shouldn't be a privilege. I care about all people, and this is why I'm here today. The proposed—the proposal by Palm Desert Mayor Pro Tem Joe Predetto and supported by the mayor to eliminate the city official recognition of Pride Month and remove the city's pride banner is not an effort toward neutrality. It's a short-sighted political maneuver that prioritizes grandstanding over local representation. The pride banner is not an extreme political statement. It's a universally recognized symbol of welcome, safety, and inclusion for marginalized community members and their allies. To label this symbol diverse and demand its removal is a false equivalency that serves only one purpose, to score cheap political points by hurting others.
[01:15:01] Mr. Bridget: The effect of the proposal is clear. It intentionally creates them and us. It sends an unequivocal message of rejection to visitors, tourists, and residents. You are not welcome in Palm Desert. This action trades the essential work of building an inclusive city for the fleeting, loud attention of a political spectacle.
[01:15:24] Mayor: All right, thank you, Mr. Bridget. Next up, we have Kevin Duncliff followed by Eileen Van Gelder, I believe.
[01:15:35] Kevin Duncliff: I am Kevin Duncliff, 73465 Feather Trail, where I've lived with my husband and many wonderful friends and neighbors over the years, almost 25 years, gay and straight. I imagine council members are aware of the statement that was put out by our local assembly member, Greg Wallis, against this proposal and in support of our local LGBT community. If you haven't read it, I urge you to read it. If you have read it, I urge you to read it again because it's really great. He's right on the money, and I think it was such a wonderful thing for him to do to put out that statement. That was great. The other thing I would say is that obviously, I hope that the council decides not to move forward with this proposal. But if you do, you know, people aren't going to remember all of the words about, 'Oh, I have gay friends. Oh, we don't really mean to divide anybody.' I mean, I think we all know that this is a pretty divisive proposal, and that's what people are going to see. You're the guys who took the gay pride flag away. That's what you'll be remembered for. That's the label that will be applied to you: anti-gay. That's what people will remember, not, you know, whatever statement or word salad you put together in support of this rather ugly proposal. So, you've obviously got a sense of the room. You've got a sense of what the community is thinking. I sincerely hope you will take that into account and at the very least give this a lot more thought, and preferably just ditch this proposal altogether. Thank you.
[01:17:35] Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Duncliff. Next up, we have Eileen Van Gelder. Yep. Or Golder. Anyway. There we are. And that will be followed by Bobby Keating.
[01:17:45] Gillian Van Gelder: Hi. Okay. My name is Gillian Van Gelder. It's okay. No, no, it's weird. I understand. Okay. So I have been a resident off and on in Palm Desert since 1998. My kid went to Washington Charter, Palm Desert Charter, Palm Desert High School. I had a whole different thing I was going to say. Sorry, I'm really nervous. But a lot of things that I was going to say have already been said. So here's what I will say. I have volunteered at all of those schools. And I know this feels like a segue. I am also the mother of a gay son who didn't tell me until he was 20, which is weird because we're very supportive. So it tells you where we are forward and backwards in our society. So what I'm going to tell you is I volunteer at a lot at Palm Desert High School because I'm on the foundation. So what—sorry. Part of what we do there is planning the graduation. And I just want to say to you guys, I know that some of you come to that graduation. So when you look at these kids, who—the leading cause of suicide for LGBTQ kids, leading cause of death for these kids is suicide. So when you stand up there to give them their diploma and shake their hand and tell them you did a great job, how do you think they're going to feel when they look at you? And these kids in this generation of the kids that are in high school right now, they're very supportive of each other. It's not like it was in the '70s or the '60s or whatever. They love each other. Mostly, not all, but mostly, and they support each other. So they're not going to look kindly on the fact that you're taking away rights of them or their friends. It's very inclusive. So I just want to remind you that—it's a rhetorical question because I know I can't ask you questions, but do you know where you live? Like this is the gay Mecca. Coachella Valley is the gay Mecca. So, our gay population is 33%. The rest of the country it's like 9%, and these are percentages I'm pulling out of somewhere, but they're pretty close to clear. But what I'm saying is please be mindful of where you live. This would be one thing if you were in Oklahoma City, but this is Palm Desert. So, think about what you're wanting to change before you change it. When you think about these kids, look at your kids. My kids have gone to school with your kids.
[01:19:50] Mayor: Thank you, Ms. Green. Understood. Understood. Bobby Keating followed by Debbie Green.
[01:20:03] Bobby Keating: Good afternoon, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, members of the council. My name is Bobby Keating and I'm a member of city staff and a proud gay man. And today I speak to you from my personal capacity representing myself and my own experience on my own time. I want to begin by acknowledging that the stated goal of civic is one I share. However, I can assure you the path to getting there is not through the proposed action currently before you. Pride is often discussed in terms of hard-fought civil rights, which includes the right to marry, and that history is at the heart of what we celebrate. But pride has grown into something more than legal milestones. It's also a celebration of visibility and belonging. If you've ever attended a pride event, and if you've not, I sincerely invite you to, you would recognize the palpable sense of collective joy that exists there. It is a feeling of being seen, often for the first time, not as something to tolerate, but as something to celebrate. And that feeling is not divisive, it's unifying. And in that way, pride is not unlike other civic or cultural observances. Christmas, for example, began as a religious celebration, but for many people it also represents warmth, generosity, and togetherness. Pride, similarly, has evolved to reflect a shared belief that our differences do not weaken a community, but rather they enrich it. The city's existing resolutions already acknowledge that principle. Resolution 2018-09 explicitly affirms the Palm Desert values of all residents regardless of who they love and rejects discrimination and marginalization. Resolution 2024-038 built on that commitment by offering a modest visible acknowledgement that LGBTQ+ residents, visitors, and workers belong here, too. Whether intended to or not, rescinding that recognition sends a message that visibility itself is something to be withdrawn. And for people who have historically been told to stay invisible, that message lands deeply. Unity is not achieved by erasing distinction, it's achieved by supporting one another within it. I respectfully ask you to uphold the city's recognition of Pride Month not as a political statement, but to reaffirm the values this council's already adopted: dignity, inclusion, and a community where everyone knows they matter. Thank you.
[01:22:11] Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr. Keating. Awesome. Debbie Green, followed by Bill Holzhauer. Oh, yeah, and if I've called your name, like for Bill Holzhauer, you're welcome to come on up towards the front, just so it's not such a long walk to do the speaking. Thank you.
[01:22:31] Debbie Green: I thought we'd be taking a bathroom break, but since we're not, welcome and thank you for being here, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, and city council members. My name is Debbie Green. I'm a Palm Desert resident. My husband and I moved here four and a half years ago. I have spoken in the past working on getting this resolution passed and was very happy to see that it was passed. I was here Thursday when you made the comments and was shocked that I actually heard it in person. While I'm surprised and not surprised about the reason we're here, I'm not surprised about this issue as I've addressed it before regarding Jan and Evan's comments in the past regarding pride. I am surprised that the newest city council representative decided to support the bias of other members. Joe, you can spin this anyway you want, but the bottom line is that your comments throw DEI initiatives backwards again. In a climate where the majority of white straight males, who are the only group not being marginalized in this country right now, this is appalling. Saying you officiate gay weddings but do not support pride is like saying, 'I don't see color,' or 'I'm good with gay people, I have a gay neighbor.' It's like saying, 'I'm kind of pregnant.' Either you are or you're not. As a former public educator, I witnessed students and staff alike who feared that they would be exposed for who they are. A witch hunt for gay teachers caused one of the best teachers I ever taught with to leave her job out of fear. I had students come to my classroom, middle school students, who knew that they could share what their fears were with me, that I would not out them and expose and hurt them in any way. I'm so proud to say that many of the students that I had who are now adults share with me on Facebook pictures of their spouses and or their partners and are very proud of what they're doing, and I am so proud of them. I have asked this city to be recognized as a sponsor at the Harvey Milk Diversity Breakfast and we still are not represented. All the city council members who support this should really think about why you should be elected when you clearly do not represent all your constituents. Thank you.
[01:24:24] Presiding Officer: Thank you, Ms. Green. Next up we have Bill Holzhauer followed by Douglas Stewart.
[01:24:34] Bill Holzhauer: Hello. My name is Bill Holzhauer. I am a former resident of Palm Desert. And I had prepared notes and I'm going to jump to the part that I think is the most important part. We should remember that pride and equality symbols do not represent only the LGBTQ+ individuals. Allies—I will say that again, allies are the most important part of these
[01:25:00] Mr. Holzhauer: ...symbols. Our allies are our parents, our siblings, friends, faith leaders, veterans, business owners. They stand alongside the community and say, 'You are not alone.' The equality message belongs to everyone who believes in fairness, respect, and shared humanity. Palm Desert has always prided itself on being a welcoming, forward-thinking, and community-driven community. Taking down symbols of inclusion risks sending the opposite message to residents, visitors, and future generations who are watching you lead. I urge the council to ignore this. And on a personal note, a lot of people think being gay is a choice. I'm going to share a personal message with you in a public forum. I am a multiple sexual assault victim from my natural father, from a scout leader, and a group of cis gay men who gang-raped me. It is not a choice. A choice is to exclude people because they seem to be different than you. I should have hate filled within my heart for what I've had to go through, but I moved to this valley because it was inclusive. Do not go backwards. Do not force me into that closet to only be taken out and brutalized again. Your actions result in fairness.
[01:26:47] Chairperson: Understood. Thank you, Mr. Holzhauer. Next up we have Douglas Stewart, followed by Melanie Goralnick. Goralnick, beg your pardon.
[01:26:59] Douglas Stewart: Hello. My name is Douglas Stewart. I live at 1167 Via Merced in Cathedral City, but up until today, I shopped extensively in Palm Desert because Mayor Pro Tem Joe Perdero and some members of the council speak as though we live in a perfect world, a world where history never happened and injustice never occurred. They ask us to believe in a world where LGBTQ people were never persecuted, imprisoned, or killed simply for existing, a world where they were not targeted by authoritarian regimes, hunted by police forces enforcing discriminatory laws, or condemned by powerful institutions that claimed moral authority while failing to live up to it themselves. They ask us to imagine a world where scripture was not selectively quoted to justify hatred, exclusion, or violence against people whose only crime was loving differently. They ask us to believe in a world where hate crimes did not rise, where harassment did not persist, where LGBTQ youth were not bullied to the point of despair, where young people did not question whether life itself was worth living because of who they are. But that is—that is the world we live in. We live in—that is not the world we live in. We live in the real world, a world shaped by these injustices and their lasting consequences, a world where progress was never freely given, but demanded by people who refused to be erased, a world where visibility has saved lives and silence has cost them. That is why pride and diversity must continue openly, unapologetically, and without compromise. Pride is not about elevating one group above another; it is about acknowledging history, honoring resilience, and affirming that LGBTQ people are worthy of dignity, safety, and recognition, not in spite of what they've endured, but because of it.
[01:29:01] Chairperson: Thank you, Mr. Stewart. Appreciate it. Next up we have Melanie Goralnick, followed by Joel Hair, H-A-I-R-E.
[01:29:12] Melanie Goralnick: Good afternoon. I'm Melanie Goralnick. I live in Bermuda Dunes. I'm here on behalf of businesses that are in favor of continuing to recognize the Pride Month and the Pride Flag in Palm Desert. We've had a business here in Palm Desert for 40 years. Our values have been steadfast in support of the LGBTQ community and diversity. And we feel to do away with that, with the celebration of Pride Month and the Pride Flag, would be a mar on the shine of the city. I am concerned about what people will think, that they'll think twice about doing business here in this wonderful city should that recognition of Pride Month go away. In fact, I would feel inclined to avoid...
[01:30:00] Melanie: ...bringing my own shopping dollars here, and I stand here in all El Paseo clothes. There is a lesson to be learned if we look at the city of Huntington Beach and what happened there. There are calls to this day to boycott all businesses there due to the cancellation of the Pride Flag, which was reported in the LA Times and many other news sources. Earl Hutchinson, talk radio host on 90.7 FM and founder of the LA Urban Policy Roundtable, has been very outspoken on the radio and in print about urging his listeners to boycott all of the businesses there. There are multiple social media groups such as boycott Huntington Beach on Facebook and Instagram, plus a large following at hashtag, um, boycott Huntington Beach on TikTok. More than ever, especially this year, people are making their statements with their wallets. If you cannot see the value of supporting the rights of our LGBTQ residents and neighbors to not only exist but to be seen and appreciated and celebrated, then please at least see that this change would be detrimental to our business...
[01:31:15] Mayor: Thank you, Melanie.
[01:31:15] Melanie: ...and your tax base. Appreciate it.
[01:31:17] Mayor: Okay, next up Ms. Hare, and we have following that Craig Carlson.
[01:31:30] Janet Hare: Um, hello council. Um, thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak. Um, my name is Janet Hare. My wife and I live at 15 Via Palmera here in Palm Desert. We moved here 9 years ago um to retire from San Francisco, which was obviously a very inclusive and welcoming um city. Uh, and we came specifically to the Coachella Valley. Um, we had vacationed here. We knew we felt welcome here. Our thought was to live in Palm Springs. As we began to look for a home, um we began to embrace living in Palm Desert instead. Uh, we have always felt welcome here. We've always felt safe here um until this week. And what has transpired this week by our newest city councilman and several other members on this council has been despicable to roll back what has been set forward to only embrace and make welcome all of our residents in this city, to keep them safe, to allow them to be themselves. That is basic human rights, basic human dignity. And I urge you to roll back this resolution. Thank you.
[01:32:58] Mayor: Thank you, Janet. Next up Craig Carlson, followed by Christopher Caldwell.
[01:33:06] Mayor: Uh, Carlson? Nope. Okay. Is Christopher Caldwell here? Okay, there we are, and that will be followed by Jorge Casales.
[01:33:22] Christopher Caldwell: Good afternoon, members of the council and uh Mr. Mayor. Thank you for the opportunity to address this issue. My name is Chris Caldwell. I am a uh I've been a homeowner in the Coachella Valley for 20 years. I'm a full-time resident, and I and I do live down the road in Palm Springs. Um, but I dine and shop regularly in Palm Desert. You've heard from many people today about why the uh the issue before you is morally wrong, why it's going to hurt people, why it's going to cause harm to young people. It's also bad politics, but I want to talk about the fact that it is a bad financial decision. It is not fiscally responsible. And as members of the city council, you each have a duty to look after the finances of this city. And adopting this resolution or moving forward with this action item would be in derogation of that duty. And the reason I say that is because of the message that you are sending. The message that I hear, regardless of what whether your intent may or may not be benign, but the message that I hear and the message that you send to this entire community—and not just the Palm Desert community, not just the Coachella Valley community, but our country, because our country will hear about the action that you take today if you move forward with this. It will be a subject of press. Don't kid yourselves into thinking it's not. And the message that you're sending is that I am not welcome here. And if I am not welcome here, I can tell you I'm not going to dine here, I'm not going to shop here, and thanks to the...
[01:35:00] Public Speaker: ...wonders of the internet for the few stores that I can only come to here, such as Nordstrom Rack, I can do that online, and I'm going to do it online because you're not going to get my tax dollars. You're going to be hurting the fiscal health of the city. And I'm not alone on this. If you can see what happened in just 24 hours, think what you're going to hear in the country.
[01:35:25] Councilmember: Okay, Jorge Casales followed... let's say after we have the next two speakers, we have Jorge Casales followed by Douglas Cook, and after Mr. Cook, let's take a comfort break for 10 minutes. Sound good, Mr. City Clerk? A 10-minute comfort break at about after the next two speakers. And do you have additional cards after that? Okay. All right. Thank you.
[01:35:51] Jorge Casales: Good afternoon. My name is Jorge Casales and I live at 30 Via Cielo Azul in beautiful Palm Desert. My husband and I have called this lovely city our home for the last seven years and change. We have felt welcome and safe the whole time until now. This ill-advised notion to rescind the Pride and Diversity Resolutions is not only unnecessary, it is also immoral, divisive, and completely unjustified. But we have seen this pattern before. At one point, LGBTQ people were barred from the military because it would harm unit cohesion. Then marriage equality was opposed on the grounds that people would be completely out of control marrying their toasters, their pets, their grandparents. Now this initiative is being advanced under the guise of, 'Oh, we want to unite the people, not keep us divided.' Well, try again. We are not going to fall for Orwellian doublespeak. Thank you so much. We see very clearly that this is about silencing and erasing a marginalized community, and as you can see, that will not happen. Have a lovely afternoon.
[01:37:16] Councilmember: Thank you, Mr. Casales. We have Douglas Cook up next. No Douglas Cook? Well, I promised one more speaker. Let's do one more speaker before the comfort break. We have Oliver Lamb. No? Oliver Lamb, no? Okay. Next up we have Alan Carballo. Carvalo? Okay, great. I'll leave that for later then. Alan, is that Mr. Carballo? There we are. What a good entrance. Okay, very good.
[01:37:54] Alan Carballo: First of all, thank you very much for having us. There's a lot of dysfunction up here, folks. We have a woman whose husband died of a fentanyl overdose. We have another woman who actually spoke against a Latina who is mayor and didn't support her going to a Latino leadership conference. We also have two men up here that are obsessed with gay rights. There's been a study that straight white men obsessed with gay rights may be gay themselves. I'm just reading statistics. And if it's true, we are here to help you. We're here to embrace the fact that you're struggling. We have been there before. We understand the struggle. For you to really be concerned about what we do privately, I can understand you're disturbed. Your wives are disturbed. Your family might be disturbed. I'm simply asking questions. How can you all say you represent the entire community, diversity, with racism, and being located in Florida instead of a resident here? And then two men, white men, Republican white men, who once again honor and respect our fearless leader, the orange demon. So, I will tell you something, we're watching every single one of you. We are watching you, and we will make sure that we are not electing you again. And when you, who are so obsessed with the economic growth of this city, wait until you see what happened at ABC is going to happen in this city.
[01:39:58] Councilmember: Thank you, Mr. Carballo. That brings us to the end of the first half. We will...
[01:40:02] Speaker: Take a 10-minute coffee break, does that sound reasonable?
[01:40:05] Speaker: Yeah. Very good.
[01:40:13] Speaker: That's all right. It, you know, you've taken
[01:52:10] Speaker: Okay, everyone. We're going to return to the meeting. Gina and Estandy, please report to the dais. There we are. Okay, thank you, Gina. Sorry. Okay, no problem. So, we're going to return to our speaker cards here and reopen the public comment. I want to applaud you guys so far. Great job. Everything's moving along smoothly. Thank you for your cooperation in all this. And we're going to get through all the cards and all the online comments. Here we are. So, Mr. David Eberwein, I believe. E-B-E-R-W-A-N. And then following that, we have David Weiss, I believe is the name based on the Gmail. David Weiss. Okay, we have a translator. Is that correct? All right.
[01:53:05] David Eberwein: Hi, my name is Dave. I am retired. I'm a retired school principal and the past president of California Association of the Deaf. My husband and I moved here to Palm Desert last year, part of the growing deaf and gay community who loves the Coachella Valley. Many people from all over California are moving here for that reason in our deaf community. The reason why we specifically chose Palm Desert and pay our taxes in Palm Desert is because everybody says, 'Why out of the entire Coachella Valley, with all these other cities, why would you pick Palm Desert?' I said, 'Well, the answer's simple. They have the best city government.' That remains untrue today. So, you, Joe, and whoever else is on board with this, think about this. Revisit your proposal. Revisit it. It should never be visited again after this. You have an off-ramp. Withdraw this proposal now. Okay. And thank you kindly.
[01:54:25] Speaker: Okay, just to be clear, Mr. Eberwein had four minutes if he chooses to use it, but looks like we're complete. Okay, very good. We have a David Weiss, I believe, based on the email address we have. No? Okay, we are looking for a June Engbloom, followed by David Tolsman. Is June here? Looks like she's on her way. Are you June?
[01:54:50] June Engbloom: Yes.
[01:54:51] Speaker: Terrific. Thank you.
[01:55:00] June Engbloom: Thank you. My name is June Engbloom. I live at 74324 Angels Camp Road in Portola Country Club, just around the corner. I've been a Palm Desert resident since 2011 and a Coachella Valley resident for 20 years. This proposal to rewrite Resolution 2018-9, which was unanimously approved, goes against everything America was founded upon. Paragraph 6 that you want to rewrite states, 'The city encourages all residents and visitors of Palm Desert to celebrate each other's differences and learn from one another.' What is so wrong with this passage that it needs rewriting? Isn't this the point of why we are on this earth? To treat others as you want to be treated? To attend school and open our minds? To learn new ways of doing things from someone of a different background? To show empathy for those who are less fortunate and to lend a helping hand? To leave the world better off than it was when we arrived? As for rescinding 2024-038, which was almost unanimous with the exception of Mr. Trueby's vote, are you just taking away the flag and any mention of Pride Month? What's next? We the people want to know if this means you no longer welcome or value any person regardless of background, culture, or religion. Will you now tolerate prejudice, racism, bigotry, bullying, and violence? Because this resolution committed Palm Desert to promoting and nurturing a diverse, supportive, inclusive, and protective community. Will the city no longer accept bids from minority or women-owned vendors? Will we no longer feel safe or secure here? Will we all receive equal protection of our constitutional and human rights? Because this is what the city of Palm Desert has been committed to. Let's keep Palm Desert, the state of California, and the good old USA as world leaders in human rights.
[01:57:04] Council Member: Thank you, Ms. Engbloom. Thank you for your time and to all my neighbors for showing up. It's important. Mr. Tolsman, followed by Stacy Mills.
[01:57:19] David Tolsman: Thank you, City Council, Mayor. I'm David Tolsman. I've lived here for 10 years. I live at 72806 Portola Way, Palm Desert. I am currently a member of the Cultural Resource Preservation Committee and I'm president of the Historical Society. Also a member of the Coachella Valley Preservation. These are organizations I give my time freely to. And I don't know why I would want to give my time freely to these organizations if this is the city I live in. When I moved here, we were at the beginning of the short-term rental crisis. And we were here in council all the time. And that confrontation brought Republicans and Democrats and independents together. We all changed the direction of the city for that. And that has changed. We are more divisive than ever before. We know that, Joe, you've got your backing from MAGA. And now you are paying them back, and that is a problem. You've only been in office a little while and we have three and a half more years of you. And I think you should step down from office because what you're going to do in the next three and a half years is going to be dangerous. We had a meeting on Monday. We did a walk around. We talked about all this stuff, but you were unswayed by the things that have happened to me, the things that have happened to other people. You seem to be oblivious to the facts. And it's just disappointing. So, I think you should resign. And the next question I have is how do we fix this? And I talked to you on our walk around. I said, 'We need to keep the banner on the building and we need a pride festival in our Civic Center Park every year.' And that's how we're going to fix this and move on. Thank you.
[01:59:10] Council Member: All right. Thank you, Mr. Tolsman. Next up is Stacy Mills followed by Brad Wald.
[01:59:21] Stacy Mills: Hi. My name is Stacy Mills. I've lived in the valley since 1964. My mom owned a shoe store on El Paseo and I love this community. Love it. I'm here and I'm representing a whole community of people, to be truthful, that were afraid to come today because they knew that there was going to be tremendous opposition and possible violence, which makes me sad. I'm sad that we're even in this position, that this community, because I love everybody. I love everybody and I don't like any kind of bigotry.
[02:00:02] Ms. Mills: towards the blacks, the Jews, the homosexual community and I love people, but why are we in this position? I'm so upset that our city hall back a year and a half ago put us in a position to where we even have to come—it's divisive. There are people who have different opinions about sexuality, and that's a fact. We know that's a fact. So why are we—why do we have to have a banner up that—that doesn't define you? You guys, I'm so sorry for the hurts I'm hearing. I—I am so against bullying and all of that, that is so sad to me, and—and we are not here to try and bully anybody. It's just—it's a special interest, and why don't we put—the Jews are going through tremendous persecution right now. Why don't we put a banner up for them? Why don't we put up a banner for the—for colored people that have gone through tremendous—
[02:01:04] Moderator: Okay. Hey, hey, hey. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right.
[02:01:08] Moderator: Okay. Easy. Easy. Easy. We hear you. We hear you. We hear you. You made your voice clear. Thank you. Ms. Mills. Yeah. Let's not make this lady feel uncomfortable, please. Thank you. Thank you.
[02:01:20] Ms. Mills: Anyways, I'm just here to say that it—and also it's not, um, gay pride week now and the sign is up. So—
[02:01:29] Moderator: Okay. Okay. We have a Brad Wald. Easy. Brad Wald followed by Sheila Durkin.
[02:01:39] Brad Wald: Opinions about sexuality? There's—it's—there's no opinions about sexuality. There's a reason they call it sexual orientation. You are born that way. I'm a gay man. I split my time between Indian Wells and Los Angeles. I'm a studio executive in the film industry and I border Palm Desert and I spend a lot of money in that city. If this is such an important topic, I was going to say there were two dissenting responders, but if it's such an important issue for the city, where is the passion from the people that believe in this? I mean, how many people have there been like myself in support of withdrawing this? This is bigotry packaged up with a bow. Pride—pride recognition does not create division, it erases it. Just because there's a discriminatory administration in this country, that doesn't give you license here. Everyone has said it all. I hope today compels you to—to reconsider this. Decency should change your mind, but if not, get ready for the embargo. Thank you.
[02:02:51] Moderator: Thank you. Uh, next up we have Sheila Durkin followed by Deborah, I believe it's Munson. Deborah Ann.
[02:03:02] Sheila Durkin: Good afternoon and thank you. And thank you to all of my friends here who have decided to act up. As one of the region's self-described foremost experts in local government, Joe, I think you've demonstrated very clearly that's not the case. You may be an expert in political administration, political theater, performance politics, but local politics, this is not. This is not a burning local issue. It's not about doing something that makes our city stronger or brings our community together. This is about a divisiveness of your own making. It's about your own personal narratives and beliefs and it's about following the national playbook. I'm very disappointed that you missed the meaning of the flag as a symbol. The reason for pride symbols and celebrations is to show people who have been and still are being marginalized in their families and communities that this community is a safe haven. This is a community where we stand together and where we celebrate diversity. This is a community where everyone is welcome. With all the pain and suffering in this world, we need places that are beacons of hope and I'm ashamed that this discussion is happening at a time when we are all celebrating such a beautiful holiday as a community. There's a quote on your website, Joe, from you that states, 'Together we can build a brighter future for Palm Desert where community thrives, opportunities grow and every voice is heard.' We already have that community, Joe. Let's make sure we keep it. Thank you.
[02:04:42] Moderator: Thank you very much. We have next up Ms. Munson, I believe Deborah Ann. Is that right? There we are. And beyond that we'll have Andy Noriega—Andy Noriega, beg your pardon.
[02:04:55] Deborah Ann Munson: Oh, yeah. Public comment. Hello, city council and mayor and concerned—
[02:05:00] Transcript gap: Gemini did not return transcript text for this 02:05:00-02:10:00 clip. Use the official video for this interval.
[02:10:01] Speaker: ...cares about its citizens. And that flag, people, we are American citizens. The United States flag represents the country. But I want to say that that flag there represents everybody, and it includes all of us. We're all members of this great big earth, and we all matter. Black lives do matter. Gay lives do matter. White lives matter. We all matter, and we all have to stick together and be recognized for who we are as individuals because we make this a beautiful city to live in. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you, everybody.
[02:10:53] Speaker: Thank you, every- Is there an Eileen? Okay, thank you very much. That'll be followed by, uh, Daniel Samacao. I think it's Samacao.
[02:11:04] Eileen Lynch: Hi, everybody. My name's Eileen Lynch, 46305 Portola Avenue, citizen of Portola, uh, of Port- of Palm Desert. Uh, Council Member Predetto, in your first moments as mayor pro tem, you had the opportunity to set the tone for what kind of leader you intend to be. You chose to pick a fight with the pride flag. To quote you, 'When you focus on differences, you get division. When you focus on similarities, you get unity.' Well, perhaps the mayor pro tem could benefit from a visit to the Living Desert, where he can learn about the critical role of diversity in creating strong desert communities. But I want to talk about this desert community. I just had the honor of graduating from the Palm Desert Civic Academy. It's an incredible program. It highlighted the diverse people and operations that keep this city going. Like the library, Parks and Rec, city planning, citizen commissions, traffic control, arts and education. Through the Civic Academy, I met neighbors and became friends with them. We continued to support each other in our personal and professional endeavors. The program brought us together in a sense of admiration and pride for my city. It's the most powerful and effective civic engagement tool I've ever taken part in, and I'm not new to civic engagement. By the way, this program was conceived, designed, and implemented by a gay city employee. When you focus on similarities, you get unity. Well, today a gay city employee I know had to listen to someone at the counter spewing horrible things about our LGBTQ community at their own place of work. This is what you've unleashed. This is not about neutrality. This is about giving permission for hate. When you focus on similarities, you get unity. Well, Joe, I'm no dog, but I know a dog whistle when I hear one, and it's very interesting to me to see who else on this council started barking.
[02:12:57] Speaker: Thank you. Next up, we have Daniel Samacao followed by Joanne Cleveland. I hope I pronounced that correctly.
[02:13:06] Daniel Samacao: Hello. Um, my name is Daniel Samacao. I actually live in Palm Springs. I was on my way to Palm Desert to go some Hanukkah shopping and heard about this, and unfortunately now Palm Desert will, uh, lose that money because I'm not shopping at this time. So, that's one thing about this. Um, celebrating diversity in this country is as American as apple pie. From St. Patrick's Day to Hanukkah to, uh, pride. Not celebrating that is un-American if you ask me. Um, where does it stop when we want to stop celebrating our diversity? There's a wonderful Holocaust memorial out there. Do we take that down? I'm the son of a Holocaust survivor. My mother and grandparents came here because of the celebration of diversity. Uh, the other day I was looking at her Reichspass and looked at the swastikas stamped on that pass and was thinking about how that government took away that celebration of diversity that was Judaism in that country. This government should not go down that path. We want to celebrate diversity here, celebrate pride. Thank you so much.
[02:14:31] Speaker: Thank you, Daniel. Next up, we have Joanne Cleveland. And that will be followed by, uh, Denise Sahagun, I believe is how it's pronounced.
[02:14:42] Joanne Cleveland: Hi, I have lived in Palm Desert for 40 years. I chose to move to California because I wanted to live where there was diversity. I wanted to get to know people who were not carbon copies of myself. Mr. Churubi and Mr. Predetto, you have managed to accomplish something that few before you have ever done.
[02:15:03] Ms. Cleveland: You have managed to alienate many residents who are in the LGBTQ+ community and their allies. Not only that, but you've also managed to reduce the revenues we currently get through their tourism dollars. Much damage has already been done by your proposal. I hope you will not only decide to rescind the current resolution to honor Pride Month, but also apologize to the public for dishonoring them. It was interesting to read that you do not want to elevate one group above another. On the surface, that sounds almost reasonable. At least I would have thought so when I was younger and had less life experience. Every time we elevate others, we also grow. During Black History Month, I always learn something. I grow. Pride Month hurts no one, but lets our LGBTQ+ friends know we care about them. We have lost many of our Canadian friends. Do we really want to lose another group? I enjoy the Christmas decoration, but that elevates one religion above others. So, will we have to do away with those? As a cyclist, I love that Palm Desert was part of the CV Link. Does that elevate cyclists above couch potatoes? Do you see how ridiculous this sounds? Providing opportunities does not suppress other groups. As a straight white female, I can choose to participate in pride activities or not.
[02:16:44] Mayor: Thank you, Ms. Cleveland. Appreciate that. Denise Sahagun, I believe it's pronounced, and that will be followed—is Denise here? Okay, terrific. That'll be followed by Leila Naimo. Is that right? Leila, L-E-I-L-A.
[02:17:01] Denise Sahagun: Hi, good afternoon. My name's Denise Sahagun, and I came here today just simply to support the idea that when I see a pride flag as a straight woman, I know that it is inclusive and for me and for everybody of any color, any gender, anything. And to make that a political statement as a city and to say we're not going to acknowledge that, it just seems that as a woman, when we—I'll let me say this. I'm old enough to know that when I used to work at a grocery store, there were no women managers. And what did we have to do? We had to fight just to be a manager. And so, it seems like taking something like this down only shows that again we have to fight just to be seen. And as a woman, also, really quickly, if we don't support diversity, then we are next. And I think every woman on this council should feel that, whether you're white or you're a person of color. People came before you to fight for us to have these positions. And when we take down a symbol of inclusivity, what are we doing? And who does that serve? And as a city, we need to serve everybody. And I just want to say, when you know better, you do better, and it's time to do better. Thank you.
[02:18:45] Mayor: All right, next up Leila, I believe is how it's pronounced, but please correct me if I'm wrong. And then we are followed by Brad Anderson.
[02:18:54] Leila Nanvar: Leila Nanvar, N-A-M-V-A-R. Good afternoon, mayor and council members. As I said, I'm Leila Nanvar, candidate for Assembly District 47, which includes Palm Desert among several other cities. I'm here because this decision today directly affects the people who call Palm Desert home. For LGBTQ+ residents, Pride Month and the pride banner are not political. They are signals of safety. They say you belong here. For young people finding their voices, for seniors who have lived through discrimination, and for families simply trying to live openly, those symbols matter. Removing the city's recognition of Pride Month sends a message, whether you want it or not. The message is that LGBTQ residents are
[02:20:00] Speaker: less welcome or less valued. Once that message is sent, it cannot be undone. Palm Desert is a diverse community, compassionate. We do not build unity by erasing visibility. At the time well when LGBTQ plus rights and dignity are being challenged nationwide, local leadership matters. Today Palm Desert can choose belonging over silence. I urge you to keep pride month, keep pride banner, and stand for the dignity and humanity for all residents. Thank you.
[02:20:47] Mayor: Thank you very much. Mr. Brad Anderson will be followed by Mindy Calvano.
[02:21:02] Brad Anderson: Hi. I'm Brad Anderson. I currently live in the city of Rancho Mirage, but I saw the news today and I thought I had to come out. I saw the mayor, or not the mayor, but one of the city council member of Palm Springs made some comments on the news about grandstanding and so forth, and I thought, well, that's just that's what they're doing. Meaning him, and I seen him walking around in the back there, so hopefully he can speak today. And being one of the probably one of the only people that were here during the 2024 resolution, when I believe Ms. Kelly, and I seen her walking around, so maybe she can speak to this. She's the one that really advocated for the banner on the building. And it was so knowing a little insights, I go to a lot of a lot of meetings throughout Riverside County government meetings, and I kind of think I know where this is going to end up, but we'll see. I just I think what the city council is doing is sensible and reasonable and fair. I don't know if many people I don't think so actually read the resolutions. That's the first thing I do when I get this kind of topics. So, I think if you read that, you can see that this is not decisive or divisive. This is an honorable thing to do for certain demographics. Everybody should like you said, it's not fair to well, I'm kind of getting off side. I think this is a fair resolution for everybody in the city, everybody. And that's all I have. Thank you.
[02:22:32] Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Anderson. Next up is Mindy Calvano, will be followed by Jane Summer.
[02:22:42] Mindy Calvano: Good afternoon. This is probably one of the most difficult things I've ever done for two reasons. One, I came to Palm Desert when I was around 10 years old. My grandmother was an executive at a national company who discriminated against her for being a woman. So, she came to Palm Desert to be one of five in-home care agencies in this valley. She served this community with her heart, her soul, and she died here. On that note, one of the things that made me fall in love with this town was Hands Across America. That was a fantastic example of unity. What is wrong with you guys? You don't want the unity? You don't want the inclusion? You don't want people here? Why? My grandmother suffered as a woman to fight for rights, to be able to own a business, have a credit card, own two houses, buy a Jaguar, and then die leaving her four children paid for homes and an inheritance. Myself, her granddaughter included, which brings me to my lifestyle. This is a real awkward way to have to come out, but I'm gay. I don't usually tell people I'm gay because people tell me this is going to hurt my business. So, I'm here to tell you that if it hurts my business in Palm Desert, and I have to sell my two properties and my commercial property and move my business to Palm Springs, I'm willing to. I fought for my son, who's half black, to have equal rights here. We were discriminated against in Palm Desert High School when he wanted to be a cheerleader. We fought, he became a football player so he could fit in, so he could make a difference and get in touch with his classmates. He was the class speaker for his graduating year. He joined Brian Harnick's team and learned that he was never going to make a difference on the Republican side.
[02:24:44] Mayor: Thank you, Ms. Calvano. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay, Jane Summer will be followed by Emmy Lopez. Is Jane Summer... She here? All right, terrific. Thank you. Okay, Ms. Summer will be followed by Emmy Lopez and, as long as we got a moment, then Violet Faith. Faith.
[02:25:16] Jane Summer: My name is Jane Summer. I moved to—I'm from Beverly Hills, California, so I grew up in...
[02:25:23] Mayor: Can you bring the mic down?
[02:25:24] Jane Summer: ...the industry. Perfect. So, I don't know about being prejudiced because you can't be in the entertainment industry and not be surrounded by a world of everybody. I don't—are you color blind? Because when I look at the banner, I just see beautiful colors. I don't see people having sex on each one of those colors, and if they are, I hope they're having fun. I am a straight, unfortunately totally heterosexual Jew who grew up in a Jewish orphanage and got called a... at seven. Do not take us back to Matthew Shepard, because what you're doing is step one, and it's wrong. Bad on you. Not good for the community, and it's not going to work, and you'll suffer and the community will suffer. End of my story.
[02:26:28] Mayor: Thank you very much. Next up we have Emmy Lopez, followed by Violet Faith.
[02:26:48] Emmy Lopez: Hello, council. My name is Emmy Lopez, and I'm a lifelong Coachella Valley resident. Half of my life I spent as a Palm Desert resident. I graduated College of the Desert last year in 2024. Over the course of three years, I had the privilege of getting an education while making lifelong friendships and having guidance from mentors who became family to me. I was in the College of the Desert Pride Student Leadership Team for over a year, where we gave hope, representation, and resources to young adults at COD in the Coachella Valley. It was a beautiful thing to see the faces of young Coachella Valley students when they realized, 'I am seen, I am accepted.' I would like to acknowledge that me speaking here is at best uncomfortable and at worst dangerous. Homophobia and ignorance in the Coachella Valley isn't just an ideology, it has physical manifestations. Approximately two years ago, during Palm Springs Pride Weekend, our pride flag that was hanging outside of the College of the Desert Pride Center was vandalized. This was recognized as a deliberate attack on the LGBTQ community of our college and pride as a whole. Let it be known that there are people who live here who align with extremist views who are ready to harm others. By the way, that flag was replaced immediately with a newer and bigger flag. The reasons that I have heard from the council to rescind pride recognition commemorations is to not imply favoritism, to let Palm Desert residents know that they have equal value. Let me tell you, when Palm Desert has hung a pride flag or banner, I don't feel like the most special person in the world. I don't feel like your favorite constituent. I just feel seen, and I feel just like everyone else. It was also proposed, according to Joe Predetto, 'when we focus on differences, we get division. If we focus on similarities, we get unity.' I am not like any of you. I have not lived your life, you have not lived mine, and it's beautiful that we are all different. Hate doesn't stem from differences, it stems from intolerance of differences. Council, if you rescind pride commemoration, your constituents will be in danger, especially the youth. Please, please protect us.
[02:28:53] Mayor: Understood. Thank you very much. Okay, we have Violet Faith Foust—I'm not sure, sorry. And that'll be followed by Michael Keely and then Jerry Carter.
[02:29:06] Violet Faith: Hello, my name is Violet Faith. I have lived my entire life in Palm Desert. I feel grateful and lucky that I felt safe and accepted to come out in my city when I was 16. That is an experience so many LGBTQ youth around our country do not get. They are scared. They are terrified that they will get kicked out, that their families will not accept them, that they will be ostracized by their city. And I am lucky enough that I have not experienced some of the major discrimination, and many people here have told us about today. And that is largely because of the community building that is done by acknowledging that different identities is a great thing, that people are different and that is okay. That does not bring division, it brings unity and understanding. That brings community. That brings understanding. That brings allyship. It means that people then...
[02:30:01] Violet: are accepting of all people. It means we experience less discrimination. That everyone gets to live happier lives in a city that they love. So, I was so disappointed and frankly embarrassed when I heard about this. Just yesterday of having on short—so short—notice to try to put down our communities. The way that the country is turning, it is not a time for our country and for our city to capitulate at the wills of and influences of all people. Shows me that our state, that our city doesn't stand on protecting what is right and it doesn't stand behind our unique communities. We all deserve to live and have great lives in a city that we love. And we deserve to be acknowledged. Division does not hurt us. Acknowledging all people does not hurt others. It brings us together as a society and brings us together as people. And that's a very important thing we need especially right now. Thank you.
[02:31:01] City Clerk: Thank you, Violet. Michael Keely. And that'll be followed by Jerry Carter. Michael here? Nope. Okay, Jerry Carter. No. Okay, we have Christian with no last name. No Christian. Okay.
[02:31:27] Mayor: Oh. Well, while Christian's coming down, did you already call the name James Hall White?
[02:31:33] City Clerk: Doesn't sound familiar. Okay.
[02:31:35] Mayor: Uh let's see. Well, we're waiting. Yeah, come on up.
[02:31:39] Christian: Yes, sir. Thank you.
[02:31:41] Mayor: Hall White, you said? No, there are seats down if people would like to come down and sit down instead of having to jog.
[02:31:48] Christian: All right. Ready? Yes, sir. Thank you. Okay, just before I start, I just want to make it clear that my comments are not rooted in the opposition of the LGBTQ community. I have family, friends, associates. My pastor is gay, and I love them all. My concern is not about the acceptance, it's about the proper role of government. When government buildings display flags or symbols tied to a specific social or ideological movement, even with good intentions, it raises a fair question: when does that neutrality and endorsement begin? If one group's flag is allowed, how do we reasonably deny others? And if acceptance requires symbolic recognition, I would just ask for a banner on City Hall in December saying 'Jesus is King' representing the birth of Jesus Christ. Many would object, of course, not because people of faith are unwelcome, but because government should remain neutral. I'm also disappointed by the efforts to silence the discussion through threats against the mayor, mayor's livelihood and his businesses and other businesses in our valley. I almost didn't come today because of the hostility surrounding this issue, but I was reminded about Charlie, whose voice was silenced with a bullet. True inclusivity includes everyone, even those we disagree with. Acceptance does not require government endorsements. People can be fully respected without the city taking positions on social movement. I believe city buildings should represent symbols that unite us all: our national, state, and city flags, while government focuses on public safety, infrastructure, and the quality of life for every resident. Sorry for being—I'm just a little nervous. Anyways, love you guys. Thank you.
[02:33:52] Mayor: Christian. Next up, I—hey, Mr. City Clerk. Okay, guys. Easy. Um, City Clerk, Mr. Mejia. I have Mr. James Hall White's card here. What did you want to pull it for some reason?
[02:34:04] City Clerk: No, he just wanted to know if his name was already called.
[02:34:07] City Clerk: It is. Oh, no, no, no. He's got about seven more to go if we're keeping them in order here. Okay, I've got Mr. Scott Conley. And that will be followed by Kathleen Kelly.
[02:34:24] Scott Conley: Good afternoon, City Council and Mayor. Thank you for holding this hearing for us. When I first saw this in the media the other day, I read the headlines as, 'Oh my goodness, what is Alabama up to this time?' So, you know, I found it very shocking because all the community centers here are very friendly to all communities that live here. I'm a resident of the Coachella Valley and I'm a full-time resident. I...
[02:35:00] Mr. Conley: reside in the other desert city called Palm Springs. And I, I see the whole Coachella Valley as my, my home. I love to hike and explore the whole area. So, I just want to point out that I don't know if you remember Anita Bryant. She, in 1976, she started something and it didn't work out very well for her. She was never able to get a booking again after that incident. So, that rallied our community and we—I was, I was young, very young then, and that helped me, uh, create new contacts and friends, and we really rallied, uh, to fight for our rights. And so, I, I have, I want you to, to think about what the perception is in what you're doing. What, what the perception is, what your stated spin is, does not conform with what the, what is really happening and the perception that, you know, you heard today that, you know, how people are perceiving this. And by removing the specific recognition, may inadvertently diminish the sense of safety and validation felt by the LBGT community, residents, and visitors. So, even if you don't see that, those communities do.
[02:36:30] Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Conley. Appreciate it. Okay, next up, Kathleen Kelly, followed by, I believe it's Carol Edney.
[02:36:39] Kathleen Kelly: Good afternoon. Brad is right. I was the person who advocated, uh, for putting the pride banner on the corner of building. And I thought I was taking out a non-controversial position because the current city policy, which we adopted, does not use the flagpole. There is no, need be no concern about a slippery slope. Instead, we put pride on a par with every other scheduled celebration and event, many of which are advertised on the corner of the building. We've used it almost like a billboard. So, a perfect example would be Hunger Action Month. We've often decorated the corner for that occasion. I have never heard anyone who has enough to eat push back about acknowledging hunger. So, what does it mean that some of your constituents have pushed back about pride? Maybe it means that current policy is important and is working, because that pushback reveals how important it is to celebrate the occasion visibly as a prompt...
[02:38:45] Mayor: Thank, thank you, Ms. Kelly.
[02:38:49] Kathleen Kelly: Thank you. ...about other people's experience.
[02:38:51] Mayor: Everybody gets 3 minutes. All right. Looking for Carol Adney, followed by Jerry or Terry Applegate.
[02:39:00] Carol Adney: Um, mayor, city council members, it's an honor to be here. Thank you for your service, even your service today, which may not be much fun. Um, I served on your arts and public, um, art in public places, the cultural arts committee for 8 years, and it was quite an honor to do so. I've been a resident here at 72835 Sumero Road for 26 years. I've always been very proud of my city and of the city council, and right now I'm worried. Um, I think it, I don't want to waste your time. I tried to make this into the simplest sentence I could. And I think, um, no matter what words are said here today, if these new resolutions pass, it will appear publicly that Palm Desert is marginalizing all minority groups. It'll be public. There will be an impression, whether or not it's true, but it will be an im—
[02:40:01] Speaker: ...public impression in Coachella Valley in Southern California. It could be national. So, thank you for taking this really seriously. Thank you for your time.
[02:40:11] Mayor: Uh, Terry Applegate. And that will be followed by Jen Martins.
[02:40:17] Terry Applegate: Good evening, council. I live in Cathedral City, and it took time for our city to become inclusive, but we did it. The shirt that I'm wearing today is one that was given to volunteers who walked in the pride parade. This is not the way to build an inclusive and welcoming community. I think of the pain caused by this statement. I felt it immediately. I think of people who are dealing with coming out in whatever age or stage of life they are in. I think of parents who recognize that the sex assigned to their children at birth did not match the label assigned to them, some of whom left states for their safety. If passed, this proposal will impact the Palm Desert economy from residents across the valley and tourists alike. This whole question really talks about the need for an educated electorate, and the need for residents to get involved and understand how to become city council people and hopefully run to change it. In Cathedral City, we will be celebrating the 10th anniversary of LGBT days. This event will be held March 6th through 8th. Our bed races are fun and draw thousands. As an inclusive community, we welcome the crowd here to join us because we be rocking it. Thank you.
[02:41:50] Mayor: All right, thank you very much. Next up we have Jen Martins. And that will be followed by Yolanda Eastman if she's here, but she said something about email, so and if that doesn't hold, we will have Joe Spinelli. Hello.
[02:42:05] Jen Martins: Hi, I'm Jen Martins. I live in Palm Desert in the Dolce community with my wife of nine years. I've lived in the Coachella Valley my entire life. I own a business on Highway 111 in Palm Desert right over here. I could probably walk there from here, and I've owned it for over three years, and I've been a hairdresser over 23 years in the Coachella Valley. I have three children that have all gone to Palm Desert schools. My youngest actually is waiting for me at the high school right now outside because we're here. Um, it matters that I'm here and that my LGBTQ child is waiting for me because visibility matters and seeing the pride flag matters. I was raised in an evangelical family where I was not allowed to watch TV. We didn't own a TV because my parents did not want me to see the pride flag, LGBTQ people, because my mom told me, 'If you play soccer, you're going to turn gay.' I never played soccer, and here I am. So, let me tell you, seeing that flag for the first time, going to my first pride, mattered. And it won't matter to the cis straight people driving down Fred Waring and Portola. It doesn't matter to them. It matters to ten-year-old me. It matters to eight-year-old people here in this room. It matters to us that need to see it. So, please put the flag up, respect the community that is here, and I beg people here support the LGBTQ businesses in Palm Desert. We are here, and I have had a pride flag in my window since the day I opened, and I will not take it down. I've had a pride mat stolen from my business that is outside. People don't like us, and they don't want us here, and they want us to be silent, and we will not be silent. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
[02:43:53] Mayor: Thank you, Ms. Martins. Um, is Ms. Eastman here, Yolanda? I think this is going to be an email. She looks to be an email. Uh, Joe Spinelli. There you go, Joe, and that will be followed by James Allwhite.
[02:44:09] Joe Spinelli: Hey there. Uh, thank you for the opportunity. Um, my name's Joe Spinelli, and um, I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, and I've been vacationing here for many decades. I'm 56 years old, and four years ago, I decided to move to the Coachella Valley because of its inclusivity, and that's all cities. Even though I live in Palm Springs, I love the Coachella Valley. It's a great place to live, and it is an inclusive environment. But I got to tell you, it took me a long time to be able to wear this rainbow shirt. When I was in college, I slit my wrists wide open because people didn't like who I was. I also overdosed. I'm lucky to be standing here today. So, first of all, blood will be on your hands if kids do that.
[02:45:00] Mr. Spinelli: Joe, what I read about you online and what you say and what you're doing don't make sense to me. I don't understand why you're going down this road. It's very confusing to me. You know, I have a question for you. Why are we spending all of this time doing this? We have more issues to deal with in the Coachella Valley. This is silly that we are doing this and that we have to be here. Come on. We're better than that. You know what? On Sunday, I was at Moulin Rouge. I spent $750 to buy tickets to Moulin Rouge for my husband and I. Two weeks ago I bought a suit for $500 at the mall. Couple weeks ago I was at the Living Desert. The past few weeks I've spent hundreds of dollars in restaurants. It's about dollars and cents for you. Think about it. You're going to lose me, who spends thousands of dollars even though I live in Palm Desert. It just doesn't make any sense to me. You are our elected officials. We elect you. Your people have spoken. You have one vote. You want to know what your vote is? To put this away.
[02:46:12] Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Spinelli. Thank you. Next is James Allwhite. And that will be followed by Judith Stone. And actually the last blue card I have, unless there's any more, Anthony, is Sheryl Mena, M-E-N-A. Thank you.
[02:46:29] James Allwhite: Hey, how are y'all? I did the Civic Academy, so I know most of y'all. I worked at a gay gym, so I know some of y'all. I'm going to start with the hope God. I was just walking up here, and I see this. This can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. Wrong. And I just learned in seminary, I'm getting my master's in theology because I have a master's in kinesiology and talked about for years holistically body, spirit, mind. And so, I want to start with one scripture that's very important. The only three things that last forever is hope, faith, and love, and love being most important. And we got to get back to political all this craziness and hate and anger and meanness, and I just wanted to share, you know, it's us. It's the United States. It's not Democrat and Republican. We got to be DRs. We got to be do-rights, okay? And everybody's do-right anymore is somebody else's wrong, and I grew up in the South where there's a Southern hospitality, and there's something where, you know, I always think everybody's going to get along, and I've come to realization that that's not the real world. But the point is we have—listen, all of y'all, I just want us to all to try to come together and find some common ground anymore and stop all this fighting and craziness. And I'll tell you a funny story. When I first moved out here, I had a blue aqua splash that I had. First car I had, I leased, got enough credit, da da da da, come out of college, came out here. And somebody stuck a rainbow flag on my truck because it was aqua blue, and they said, 'I didn't know you was gay.' I said, 'I'm not gay. I'm straight.' It says, 'Well...' And so that's how I learned about a flag. Red, white, and blue to me is a rainbow. What after storms? So, even through this storm, what are we going to see? Rainbows, right? So, gay is about happiness. It includes—I was bullied. I had a Down syndrome man. I had a mother who messed. So, I know where y'all stand. I've had gay clients and friends that I've tried to help. So, point being is let's find a common ground, and hey, you know, we have—
[02:48:30] Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Spinelli. Thank you, sir. Okay, we're looking for Judith Stone if she's here. Judith Stone? There you are. Thank you.
[02:48:47] Judith Stone: Good afternoon, council members. I have been a resident in Palm Desert for nine years. I am not gay. With my husband, we live in Palm Desert and we have loved it. Think about this. Who is harmed by hanging these flags? Is anyone harmed? I think it might—are you afraid it signals that suddenly we'll have an onslaught of people that are LGBTQ in and overpower all other groups? I suggest that instead of all of this that we are doing now, that the council work with the LGBTQ community to educate the community to understand what this flag truly stands for. Inclusion for all. All includes all. While I was waiting to come up here, I read a lot of the emails that were up there. More than 100.
[02:50:01] Public Speaker: I'll just say one thing to you: read the room. Thank you very much.
[02:50:06] Mayor: We're looking for Cheryl Mena, M-E-N-A. Is Cheryl here? No Cheryl? Okay. Uh, City Clerk, that is all the blue cards I have for speakers here at the meeting. Are we going to move to online comments?
[02:50:21] City Clerk: And for those on Zoom, if you want to participate in public comment, please click the raise hand button on your computer or smartphone. And if you're joining in by calling on your phone, please dial star nine to raise your hand and when called upon, press star six to unmute yourself.
[02:50:33] City Clerk: And the first speaker is a phone number ending in 708.
[02:50:38] Mayor: Hey, by the way, uh, City Clerk, may I pause for a moment? Do you have an, uh, how many, just for the sake of planning?
[02:50:43] City Clerk: We have five.
[02:50:44] Mayor: Okay. Very good. Thank you.
[02:50:45] City Clerk: Six.
[02:50:47] Deborah Vogler: Hello, this is Deborah Vogler. I live on Shadow Mountain Drive in Palm Desert. And this is my comment. The Palm Desert City Council should find more constructive uses of its time, rather than follow the current fad of embracing the divisiveness that comes from throwing politeness and considerateness out the window. Acknowledging various groups of people who have not always enjoyed the right to vote, hold a job, or marry, or who otherwise have been denied equal protection under our Constitution laws, is not divisive. Celebrating our coming together as a society to do better by groups that are still subjected to hate is a positive, not a negative thing. Flying the LGBTQ flag during pride celebrations is a welcome sign to those who historically were not welcome anywhere. Examples of more constructive issues upon which the city council could focus include diversifying our local economy so it is not so dependent on tourism and/or construction of warehouses. We need more attention paid to developing excellence in STEM education and entrepreneurship in technology so that more of our young people can remain in the area after graduation. Another focal point could be constructing microgrids so that Palm Desert would be better prepared in the event of a major earthquake or other disaster that takes out the grid. Thank you for your consideration.
[02:52:22] Mayor: All right. Thank you very much. Next online speaker is Seth Howell.
[02:52:30] Mayor: Seth, you can begin.
[02:52:35] Seth Howell: I would just like to say that I agree with everything that my mother, Mandy Calvano, said, and I am very proud of the city I grew up in and I do hope to see that this is resolved better and we just do better moving forward. So, thank you so much.
[02:52:50] Mayor: All right. There we go. Third speaker is going to be Paulina Angel.
[02:53:04] City Clerk: Paulina, you can unmute yourself and begin.
[02:53:08] Paulina Angel: Hello. My name is Paulina Angel. I serve as a board member for Palm Springs Pride, a founding member of East Coachella Valley Pride, as well as director of Transgender Resource Advocacy and Network Service. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it a violation of the Brown Act to have any meetings if the agenda was not disseminated 72 hours prior? That is one of many things that I have learned when I was the first transgender student leader of Associated Students of COD, as well as president of the GSA Network at COD as well. Everything about my work as an activist began in Palm Desert, including finding out that I am actually transgender. And so, it really baffles me that we are here now in 2025, about 20 years after I've started my life as an activist, that I have to come to the place that basically gave me the platform to have a voice, to have to talk to people that are either younger than me or older than me, that this is wrong. I sent a lengthy email to you all last night, and so I'm going to let that email speak the rest of the time for me. But I just want to say that, you know, I think this is wrong and, Joe, you should be really ashamed of yourself right now and you should feel like you have egg on your face for pushing this through. So, I would like to say that you all should rescind your idea of doing the amazing work that has already been done for our community and continue to fly the pride flag.
[02:55:01] Public Speaker: And also, I would like to invite you all as a member of Palm Springs Pride or East Coachella Valley Pride to even come to our pride celebration. You'll find that you actually will enjoy it. Thank you.
[02:55:10] Mayor: Okay. Thank you very much. Speaker number four, I believe, Anthony. Is Isabel Isabella Gutierrez?
[02:55:21] Isabella Gutierrez: Hi, my name is Isabella. I self-identify as queer and use she/they pronouns. I'm a resident of Palm Desert and current student of political science at LMU in Los Angeles and COD alumni. And I'm here to speak and contest this proposal because not only does the recognition of Pride Month and the flag in my city stand for the affirmation of my identity and a community at large that's very much representative of a huge demographic in the valley, but also affirming for those that come to visit our residents and that will generate revenue for the city council, which I'm sure is quite imperative to continue to fund even the positions you're in. So, to even think about that aspect of tourism is something I invite you to look at and what a flag in recognition of Pride Month can continue to do for us. And if we want to consider facts here when it comes to the alarmingly high rates of hate crimes that LGBTQ people are subjected to, we can point to Human Rights Watch or UCLA center that shows how since 2024 and especially with this current administration of 2025, how much these rates have continued to exceed, and what a flag can do is actually help garner support and advocacy against these hate crimes versus create division, which Mr. Joe seems to believe. So, really I just say shame and I hope that you don't continue this proposal and choose not to amend this and continue to preserve the integrity of a vibrant community that continues to support Palm Desert and the jobs you're in. Thank you.
[02:57:16] Mayor: Thank you. Speaker number five, I believe, is Ken—Ken Hunt? Or Ken Hunt? Next is going to be Anice Smith.
[02:57:34] Anice Smith: Good afternoon, mayor and city council members. My name is Anice Smith. I'm a previous candidate for Palm Desert City Council District 3 and I live in North Palm Desert. I just want to start by clearing up a legal point because the word neutrality is being used a lot here. I listened to what was said on Fred Rogan and it's being used in a way that sounds reasonable, but it's not what it means under the Constitution. And as an attorney, I can tell you that neutrality does not mean that the city must pretend it has no values or race recognition of a community. Neutrality is required when the government is regulating private speech or opening a space for the public to use. In those situations, the city cannot pick winners and losers. But that is not what is happening here. When the city chooses what to display at city hall, the city itself is speaking and the Supreme Court has been explicit on this point. So, if there's any doubt about this, I encourage you to confirm it with the city attorney. And let's be clear to differentiate what your personal or perhaps religious preferences and what the law says. That is why cities routinely recognize veterans, civil rights histories, history, and community observances. Pride fits squarely within that tradition. It is not the city favoring one private group over another. It is the city expressing values of inclusion and belonging. We're saying you are welcome here. So, I want to also suggest some reading that might be helpful to better understand this issue. Writers and scholars like Audre Lorde, James Baldwin, and bell hooks have written extensively about visibility and what happens when institutions claim to want to prioritize neutrality when what the outcome really is is erasure. And reading some of their work may help you to better understand the history and the blood, sweat, and tears, and sometimes people's lives that were given so that we could have safe spaces for the LGBTQ community. And you may not realize it, but Palm Desert is absolutely supposed to be one of those safe spaces. And you may also not realize—
[02:59:38] Staff: The time, two minutes, is up.
[02:59:40] Mayor: Thank you very much. Is there another online? Yes, we now have seven more speakers. Very good. Raphael Morrison.
[02:59:58] Mayor: Raphael, you can unmute yourself and begin.
[03:00:03] Raphael Encarnacion Morrison: Hello council members. My name is Raphael Encarnacion Morrison. I live at 35939 Portain Drive along with my husband and my 13-year-old child. We relocated to the area of Palm Desert 2 years ago because we felt that it was an inclusive community. A loving community. A community where we felt and we knew that our son will be treated with respect. This resolution does not reflect Palm Desert values as a diverse, supportive, and loving community. Adopting these changes that you're proposing today doesn't make me feel any safer. And I can assure you it will not make my child feel any safer. We are part of this community. We have decided to live here because we wanted to be in a community that loves us, that we feel inclusive, that we feel loved and respected. And as residents of this community we demand, we do not ask that this resolution is not adopted. As city council members that you are, remember who you work for. Thank you.
[03:01:11] Staff: Thank you.
[03:01:13] Staff: Next online speaker, Molly S.
[03:01:21] Molly S.: Hi, my name is Molly. I am a local resident in Palm Desert and Palm Desert business owner. I just wanted to let you know I'm very disappointed that you guys are discussing this right now. I'm hopeful that you will do the right thing and thank you so much. Please do better.
[03:01:41] Staff: All right. Thank you very much. Next online speaker, Vicky Berg.
[03:01:53] Staff: Vicky, you can unmute yourself and begin.
[03:02:02] Vicky Berg: Okay, can you hear me now?
[03:02:05] Staff: Yes.
[03:02:05] Vicky Berg: Okay, sorry about that. My opinion, this has absolutely nothing to do with what you say it does. This is all about politics. Are you going to get rid of Father's Day and Mother's Day celebrations? Or how about Black History Month? Do you have any idea what will happen if you do that? Across the federal government today, agencies have been busy scrubbing photographic, written references about women, people of color, and members of the LGBTQ+ community from the websites. The SBA has done that. The Defense Department, National Cemetery, the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Pentagon, the National Park Service, the Center for Disease Control, the State Department, and the Social Security Administration. This is a subtle act of violence. It's saying you don't exist. This is compliance with higher mandates, and I think we all know what that means. Thank you.
[03:03:21] Staff: Thank you very much. Next online speaker is the phone ending in 474.
[03:03:34] Michael: Michael, a local business owner. So, my comment is that the city shouldn't be involved in social issues, agendas. That's not what city government is supposed to do, and it's been pushed into doing these things, and I agree to roll it back and do what cities are supposed to do. You know, manage the roads, the public safety and so on, governance. And issue permits equally so people can go out and have events in the park or get a parade permit. And the groups and nonprofits and so forth, they can all do that and do that equally. So, I'm in support of this resolution. I'd also point out that you're excluding other groups when you decide this group needs a flag on our building. Well, there's a lot of groups that should have a flag. I could go into my family's history. But we don't have time for that, but I could say there's been in the Irish community years of hard discrimination. My grandfather died, and I never met him working as a slave basically in a mine. Killed him. We could go on about that, but no one talks about that. I would like to see a St. Patrick's Day flag. It's not about drinking. Someone made it that. It's not true. False narrative.
[03:05:00] Public Speaker: But we could go on and on about that. But that's what will happen if you're going to open the door to everyone gets a flag. I want the Irish flag on St. Patrick's Day on City Hall and some education on what it represents. Now, why do we celebrate Veterans Day and so forth? Well, that's service to the government. So, that's a government like you would honor firemen, sheriff, veterans. That's completely different. That is something I would think a government should do is honor people who have, you know, sacrificed for the government, worked for the government. That's different than saying okay.
[03:05:38] Staff: Next online speaker.
[03:05:39] Public Speaker: Thank you.
[03:05:41] Staff: Next speaker is Misty.
[03:05:49] Misty Howell: Hi, this is Misty Howell. Can you hear me?
[03:05:52] Staff: Yes.
[03:05:53] Misty Howell: Okay.
[03:05:54] Misty Howell: Good afternoon. I actually was calling in because I've been a lifelong resident here in the valley, and then for 32 years in Palm Desert. I'm happy to say my family has joined in this afternoon and has also spoken out today. I'm hopeful hearing how many people have spoken out against this change. I'm disgusted that we've gone forward to be inclusive and to show that the city is welcoming to, you know, all of... My partner and I have two businesses, two residences here. We pay a lot of money, you know, like others have said they have, and then people that don't pay a lot of money. It's about how we live and where we are comfortable. And I'll say I've been in this valley when it wasn't okay, and I have been part of the people who have fought to make it so that I shouldn't have to be here today talking about it being okay for you guys to keep a flag up that you've already said you're going to. Can't believe we're going backwards. I hope that you change your mind and that you do better and you do right by your constituents. Thank you.
[03:07:32] Staff: Terrific. Thank you. Next online speaker.
[03:07:35] Staff: Julie Jimenez.
[03:07:42] Julie Jimenez: Hi, so my name is Julie. I grew up in Palm Desert, and I just want to say that not recognizing Pride Month does not make this city more unified, safer, or stronger. It sends a clear message about who is welcome here and who is not. Pride Month is not about special treatment. It's about acknowledging that LGBTQ people do exist. They live here. They work here. They pay taxes here. They spend their hard-earned money here. This feels less like leadership and more like an attempt to mirror the priorities of this current administration. We need to protect marginalized communities, not start erasing them. So, why are we going backwards? Pride Month harms no one, but not recognizing it does real damage. Thank you.
[03:08:37] Staff: Thank you very much. Next online speaker.
[03:08:41] Staff: Nicholas Snow.
[03:08:52] Staff: Nicholas, if you can unmute yourself and provide your comments.
[03:08:56] Nicholas Snow: Yes, hi. I'm Nicholas Snow. I am a resident of Palm Springs. I'm known for my PromoHomoTV online broadcasting, and I've been out of the closet and in the media for over 40 years. When we talk about the pride flag, we're not talking about exclusion, we're talking about belonging. The pride flag was never meant to divide us into categories or rank identities. It was created as a symbol of visibility, dignity, and shared humanity, especially for people who were told for generations that they didn't belong at all. Each color represents something universal: life, healing, sunlight, nature, harmony, spirit. These are not special interest values, these are human values. The evolution of the flag over time hasn't been about narrowing who gets to belong, it's been about widening the circle. It reflects a growing awareness that some people have been pushed further to the margins and deserve to be seen, protected, and affirmed. Inclusion doesn't mean taking someone
[03:10:01] Mr. Mejia: ...away from anyone else, it means refusing to leave anyone behind. The pride flag reminds us that diversity is not a threat, it's a strength, that visibility saves lives, and that a community rooted in love, respect, and truth has room for everyone. At its heart, the pride flag says something very simple and very powerful. You belong, you are seen, and you matter. And by the way, the whole world is watching, not just the Coachella Valley and the United States. Thank you.
[03:10:32] Mayor: Thank you very much. Mr. Mejia. More speakers? Uh, David.
[03:10:41] David: Yes, um, that was a great segue. Um, just to give a voice from outside of Palm Desert. Um, my husband and I just moved here after 25 years living in DC. Um, we came out here last year and fell in love with the Coachella Valley and immediately bought a place because of the people and the community that we felt. And now, we just moved out here on September 3rd full-time, and I'm almost regretting it. I'm, I'm scared. I'm scared that I moved to a place after living 25 years in the DC area. Now, we have to face a city council that's doing this to our residents. It's scary. And I'm almost ashamed because a lot of my friends went to Florida. They retired to Florida, Wilton Manors, because that is a welcoming community. And now, we are scared. Thank you.
[03:11:50] Mayor: Thank you very much. Um, Nathan Kimpy.
[03:12:01] Nathan Kimpy: Thank you. I, a resident of... I'll just take my time so... I'll take my time in a minute. Hang on. I, I, I yield my time.
[03:12:28] Mayor: Okay. Um, I believe that David with the hand raised is the same David that spoke before, but uh, let's double check. Hi, David.
[03:12:42] David Fletcher: No, it's, it's a different David.
[03:12:44] Mayor: Okay.
[03:12:45] David Fletcher: Uh, David Fletcher. Um, and uh, I just uh, like to make a couple comments. Um, I thought it was interesting that, and I'm fully support the idea of trying to have an inclusive community. Um, that's a great goal, um, but uh, I don't see uh, Pride Month or the Pride Flag as something as divisive. Um, it actually celebrates acceptance and inclusion and uh, the progress that the LGBTQ community has made um, towards that goal, uh, which I think is what we want in the city of Palm Desert. Um, so I, um, it, it's to me similar to holiday decorations um, on, at City Hall, Thanksgiving decorations. Um, are you going to celebrate uh, Christian holidays but not Jewish holidays? Vice versa, you can celebrate everybody's holiday. Um, I think that uh, this is just something that is the celebration of in, the progress that this group has made in becoming accepted in our society. The people who are prejudiced and judgmental still that um, don't want these people here are the people that need to leave, not the LGBTQ community. Um, I, I hope that they continue to support our businesses um, regardless of your decision because it is not the businesses in the city of Palm Desert that is making this decision, it's the council. And so, um, I understand that they want to uh, make a statement and um, and I respect that, but I, I don't think that that's the best way to do it.
[03:14:50] Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Fletcher. Uh, next speaker. Is Mel England?
[03:15:00] Mel England: Yes, hi. My name is Mel England. I am an out LGBTQ actor and I live and work in the Coachella Valley, and I notably was one of the first out HIV-positive actors in Hollywood. And I'm speaking to the council today as a member of the community at large, and specifically because my husband works at a retail establishment in Palm Desert on El Paseo. And I can give you first-hand account information about sales in the valley, and specifically in that they have gone down in December, whereas other locations of similar establishments around the country, the numbers are going up. We have a flight of Canadians happening. Any measure like this that would pass is going to adversely affect the economy. I'm speaking personally as somebody who is a member of the LGBTQ community, and I'm very emotional, but if you just want to talk about business, any action you take to hurt the LGBTQ+ community will affect the bottom line of Palm Desert and the larger Coachella Valley. It is a big mistake right now. Thank you.
[03:16:28] Staff: Thank you very much. Next online speaker. Last call for online speakers.
[03:16:36] Staff: Okay, I've got no raised hands, Mayor.
[03:16:39] Mayor: Terrific. Thank you very much. We do have one more blue card that came in in the interim. It is from Mr. David Weiss, and we're going to clock four minutes due to ASL. Very good. Thank you.
[03:16:56] David Weiss: Hi, my name is David. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak. I apologize I had to leave, I just had a medical appointment and I didn't realize that this meeting was going to run so long, but it's been very worthy, everything that's being said here and communicated. I was born and raised as a deaf individual. I live in Palm Desert as a retiree, and I worked in the professional telecommunication industry for many years. My former husband just passed away, and he worked as a city attorney in Northern California. And perhaps he may be rolling over in his grave right now to hear that this is going on. I want to emphasize the importance of everyone having their life mean something, and that their love means something to everybody and to the people they love and to themselves. And to take something like this away, honestly, it's just simply pride recognition. I'm a deaf individual. I'm recognized as a disabled person. Day in, day out, you've seen the deaf community here today. We've been present. People from Palm Desert and other parts of the Coachella Valley, not just gay people, allies, straight people, our ally friends. And so, I just want to emphasize that it might be important for you to focus on other things than withdrawing something. And the reason behind this sort of thing, I don't understand. I just don't know why one would want to remove a banner that celebrates diversity, especially in this moment, now. And then we got 24 hours' notice to actually come into this last-minute meeting. Fortunately, I have to give large thanks to City Clerk Anthony Mejia for working hard to find American Sign Language interpreters for this important special meeting. So, thank you very much, Mr. Mejia. And again, please, if you could consider withdrawing your proposal. It is unnecessary. And I want to thank you.
[03:19:33] Mayor: All right. Thank you very much. Are there any more blue cards? Any more online? So, I guess we're closed with the online, huh? No online comments. Terrific. Okay. Well, seeing no further speakers, public comment on this item is now closed. So, thank you very much.
[03:19:45] Mayor: Hey, I just want to say something real quick before we begin the portion where we now take comments and questions from the council. I applaud you all. That was a lot of folks here and it was a lot of energy, and you kept it civilized and kept it...
[03:20:02] Mayor: Rolling. So, thank you so very much for doing that. As we—I just would ask you, as we all speak up here, you would show the same level of civility and decorum whether you agree with the speakers or not. So, we will move forward into the City Council situation or—sorry, time for questions. Do the council members have questions for staff?
[03:20:22] Councilmember Joe: Mr. Mayor, may I speak first since I instigated this?
[03:20:27] Mayor: Do you want comments or questions? This is not a public hearing.
[03:20:32] Councilmember Joe: Oh, okay.
[03:20:34] Mayor: So, there we go. We'll move forward with Joe's comments.
[03:20:35] Councilmember Joe: I'd like to set the tone for this because I love you all. And Daniel, you seem like a good hang. Let's get coffee. And for anyone who disagrees with me, I'm available for hugs after the meeting. Last week, I brought this forward. There has been a lot of backlash, mostly from people who have not read my statement or listened to it in full. So, let me briefly summarize what I said. I said that we all enjoy liberties and freedoms, and government must fight to protect those. However, I do not believe government should be in the business of celebrating one group's private identity over another's. The city's current policy gets it wrong. The government's role should be a neutral referee. We ensure the rules are fair and everyone's rights are protected, but we do not pick favorites to choose for. When the government uses public facilities to elevate one group, even with the best of intentions, it creates an implicit priority. It shifts our focus from what we share as citizens to what separates us into categories. We have reached a point where our community is welcoming and integrated, and we must avoid well-intentioned government speech from creating division where social harmony already exists. This was in response to citizens and residents that reached out to me about their concerns about the LGBT banner that flew on City Hall during November recognizing PS Pride, and that it constituted unequal treatment. I then asked my colleagues to consider the proposals that are before us today: move to a consistent policy of neutrality, no banners for any identity groups on City Hall, and strengthen our diversity policy by changing the language from focusing on differences to focusing on that which unites us. And I have been wrong about a lot of things in my life. Many things I was so sure were turned out to be, and things that I was so sure were turned out not to be. And I'm open to being wrong and admitting it when I am. That's why I appreciate the many people who reached out to me and were willing to have very open and difficult conversations. I learned a lot. In particular, I want to thank Steven Nelson. You let me ask questions that were difficult for me to ask, and you were gracious with your responses. And I want to thank you, Karina. I admire your strength and your integrity and your conviction. You too allowed me to ask vulnerable questions and answered them without judgment. There were others, too, that took a risk to reach out in constructive dialogue, including you, David. I'm not going to resign. I respect all of you and thank you because although we may not agree on everything, you helped me evolve on several ideas. Here's what I got wrong. First, the role of government. I was sure that government's role was total abdication of social issues to focus only on municipal services. I admit I was hiding behind potholes. The truth is, government has played a historic role in honoring values. We have a Holocaust memorial in Civic Park. That is appropriate. So, while I still believe government should be limited, I admit that acknowledging our history is part of the work. Second, the state of our community. I claimed our LGBT community is fully welcomed and integrated. But I learned that many members of the LGBT community do not feel that way. They are scared. They feel unsafe.
[03:25:00] Speaker: That is a real problem. And fixing it aligns with the core functions of government: safety and equal protection. We have more work to do there.
[03:25:15] Speaker: Third, I learned that the pride flag is more than a symbol celebrating certain communities. It is a symbol of liberty, equal rights, and the hard fights fought for those things. It is also a memorial to all those who suffered in that fight. Honoring the fight for equal rights is very American and worthy of recognition and celebration.
[03:25:42] Speaker: Lastly, celebrating pride in Palm Desert is a concern for some citizens because they felt that the images of the worst parts of Palm Springs Pride would come into Palm Desert and disrupt the community. In my conversations with those in the LGBT community that chose to live in Palm Desert, they did so because they enjoy the current character of the city and want it to continue that way.
[03:26:13] Speaker: For those that ask if I regret bringing this topic up, I don't. We wouldn't have had these conversations otherwise. In the last four days, I've already found some more common ground from which we can work—building blocks of unifying similarities.
[03:26:34] Speaker: However, I discovered something else this week: an irreconcilable divide on the definition of equality. For me and many who would profess to be center-right or even classical liberals, equality means equal rights, equal treatment, and the equal protection under the law. The rules are the same for everyone.
[03:27:03] Speaker: For many, especially on the progressive side, equality means adjusting rules or outcomes sometimes to account for unequal starting points. This is why we are here today. Our residents are divided on their understanding of equality, not their pursuit of it, and we will be setting policy to clarify that. And we must do so with measured reason.
[03:27:29] Speaker: Society is built on reason, not emotion, and reason is the basis of a stable society. Operating out of emotion without rational basis is a path to chaos. When I ran for office, I committed to showing my homework to everyone concerned, so that you know I'm making reasoned judgments. You're welcome to disagree, but I'm making my decisions on principle and reason, not emotion.
[03:28:01] Speaker: This frees me to make tough calls without fear of false labels. So, how do we determine from reason if government should display symbols representing specific groups? We return to the foundational ideas and key principles that underlie a classical liberal society and how government functions in it.
[03:28:26] Speaker: The first key principle includes pluralism. Government exists to protect rights, not to adjudicate moral disputes. In a diverse society, we must remain impartial to avoid alienating citizens who have different beliefs. And we'll note that the few people who spoke in favor of the resolution took a lot of courage because they were way outnumbered. There are people who have different opinions; they're not all bigots.
[03:29:01] Speaker: Liberty. Citizens should never feel coerced by the state to affirm views that conflict with their conscience, culture, or religion.
[03:29:10] Speaker: Neutrality. Flying identity-specific symbols crosses the line from tolerance into endorsement. It uses state power to promote one side. Based on these principles, I land on the classical understanding of equality. The rules must be the same for everyone. A policy of neutrality limiting the display of identity and symbols on City Hall is the best way to protect liberty for all citizens. It is not based on hate, but a classical principle of a free, tolerant, and equal society.
[03:29:48] Speaker: Systems over goals. Equity is a very good goal. You need a system to get there. And you can disagree with me on the principles at play,
[03:30:00] Speaker: ...but know that this is a policy preference, not a right or wrong. Let's presume that the progressive definition of equity is the preferred one. What are the outcomes? At present, the outcome is failure. Members of the LGBT community feel unsafe, and they feel it is only getting worse. The status quo is failing.
[03:30:26] Speaker: Other residents feel there has been a violation of their understanding of equality and tolerance, and that flying identity-specific symbols is a violation of a social truce. Consequently, they are growing more resentful and don't feel like they can talk about it, because look at the consequences. More failure.
[03:30:46] Speaker: The current strategy does the opposite of what it intends and is designed to fail. This is the current strategy: One, divide. It divides residents into categories based on their identity and their grievances. Two, symbolize. It flies separate flags for each category, visually reinforcing that we are different tribes. Three, coerce. It demands that everyone outside that category, not just tolerate, but actively affirm those differences. Four, condemn. Finally, it condemns anyone who hesitates as a bigot.
[03:31:27] Speaker: The strategy relies on shame and coercion. It highlights differences, punishes dissent. It builds resentment, not community. We need a new strategy, and what I propose is this. The goal is the same: acceptance and integration, unity.
[03:31:48] Speaker: The cycle of unity is this: One, identify shared values. We start by identifying the things that unite us all: liberty, safety, dignity, neighborliness. Two, align. We look at our marginalized groups like the LGBT community and many more, and we recognize how their journeys align with those shared values. We honor their fight for liberty. We honor their struggle for dignity. Three, celebrate together. We celebrate shared values, not the separate category. We don't separate certain rights of those and other rights of others. We celebrate equal rights. Four, symbolize unity. We fly symbols that represent us all.
[03:32:37] Speaker: I said it breaks my heart that the American flag, the one symbol that should all unite us, has connotations of racism, intolerance, and bigotry. I can't change that. I wish I could because that is the one symbol that could and should represent us all. We also have potentially our city seal, symbols that say whatever your background, you belong to this whole.
[03:33:04] Speaker: The current strategy asks us to focus on differences, and when you focus on differences, you get division. The new strategy aims to unify and strengthen the whole community. I brought this forward to solve a problem. It stems from the love I have for my community and everyone in it, including each and every one of you. It isn't about the LGBT community, but how we get along and move towards our goal of greater unity and acceptance.
[03:33:35] Speaker: You can say that my proposal is wrong, but the current strategy is designed to fail. It is just that I have the courage to say something and propose a third way, and more productive way, that hopes to get us off the path of slow and sure demise.
[03:33:56] Audience: Easy. Easy. Easy. Easy.
[03:33:59] Speaker: Not only is our current strategy designed to fail, it violates my core operating principles of liberty, tolerance, and equality.
[03:34:11] Audience: Easy.
[03:34:15] Speaker: So, what we are doing today is first, we are recommitting to diversity by changing our language in the resolution to focus on what unites us, and this is common sense. Second, regarding pride, we must continue to celebrate pride in forms that focus on our shared American values of liberty and equality and the hard fights that went into get them. However, regarding the banner on City Hall, I still believe the principled, smart strategy is neutrality. No banners recognizing individual groups should adorn City Hall. This is about stability and social cohesion. I know this is a line in the sand for many, and I know there's threats of backlash and economic boycott.
[03:35:01] Joe Perdeto: Easy. But there are some things that aren't for sale. Liberty, equality, liberty, equality, and dignity will not bend to threats. I am giving myself a Christmas present this year.
[03:35:23] Mayor: Easy. Easy. Let him finish.
[03:35:23] Joe Perdeto: The chance to stand on principle. Let the record show that today Joe Perdeto took a stand for liberty, tolerance, and equality. That this is the best gift anyone could receive. No more banners on City Hall.
[03:35:44] Mayor: Okay. Next up, I would like to call upon Council Member Harnik for her thoughts and comments. Thank you.
[03:35:52] Council Member Harnik: I don't have a prepared script, but I do have this. Out of resolution number 2018-09, I just want to state this: Celebrate each other's differences and learn from one another. Let's start there. I will not support taking that out of there.
[03:36:18] Council Member Harnik: Please don't. Please don't. Let me finish, and let's have... This is a business meeting. This is the business of the people, and let's take it seriously. I want to set a couple things straight. I've heard a few times talk of the flag, of putting the flag up. This is not about the flag, and I know some of you are well aware. This is about the banner over on the corner. And we put this up for many things. And I just want to make that abundantly clear. It is about the banner that shows on the corner of City Hall. I also want to address the fact that there have been some people who have found issue with the immediacy of this meeting. Some appreciated it, some found it nefarious. There was nothing nefarious about this. What this was was the fact that Mr. Taylor said this was a dumb proposition. I say it was destructive. And we had to act on it immediately, and as soon as we could do it was at 1:30 today. We have listened for three and a half hours. So, people have had a chance to talk. So, it wasn't that... I'm sure there are some people who are left out. No matter when we had it, there are going to be people who couldn't come. We got a great response. People spoke up, and thank you for being here. My feeling on that banner, that is a great American success story. There are countries in this world where that would never happen. In fact, there are places, unfortunately, in the United States of America where that might not happen. It is happening here in Palm Desert. I tried to read every one of the emails I got and I will tell you I didn't get to them all. I just didn't have the time. I tried and I responded to many of them. I heard about, 'Oh, why are we doing this? This has been over since the 1980s. We're all good now.' Come on. When my kids were in high school at Palm Desert High, on two separate occasions, I had a young man living in my home because he had come out of the closet, his parents kicked him out. Two separate students. And that was probably around 2010, between 2010 and 2015. And they lived in my home under one condition: they knew that they would be safe there and their parents knew where they were and they could contact me. So, it's not over. But we're better, and Dr. Frick, who was here earlier and said we're not finished, he's right. We're not. We have work to do and we'll always have work to do. So, let's keep doing it in a very positive way. You said you performed more than 20 weddings for LGBTQ+ people. You got to understand this is not easy. Maybe because I'm old enough to remember when people could not come out of the closet, could not speak up or they would lose their job, their family might be hurt, they might be hurt. It's not over. We have to be sure we support every...
[03:40:00] Councilmember Harnik: ...marginalized person there is, and a simple banner, if we're saying we acknowledge, we also say it for lots of other reasons. Really? This is not who Palm Desert is. I promise you. I promise you, and I have heard from myriad businesses about this. Please don't do this. This is not who Palm Desert is. It just isn't. Uh, I took notes, so excuse me that I'm all over the place, but we talk about the acknowledgment of history. We know what history is. We know where we've been. We know where we're going. Let's keep going in the same direction. We've made progress. We have more. I pushed to get this resolution through in 2018 because we needed it then and we need it now. We need to celebrate the differences. That is what makes us great. That is how we learn from each other, and that is how we grow. So, please, please, thank you for being here. Thank you for supporting it. And there were some rather ugly, mean-hearted comments made. There was mostly, mostly, the greater majority was respectful. And thank you for that. And when there were ugly comments made, I have to say there were a number of you who apologized for people who did that, and thank you for that as well. We can do better. We will continue on that road doing better. So, please hang in there with us. It is not who Palm Desert is. Hang in there with us. Please. Thank you.
[03:42:07] Speaker: Thank you, Councilmember Harnik. I think I'll move over to Councilmember King Cheney.
[03:42:12] Councilmember King Cheney: Thank you. First off, if you see me kind of squinting, it's because my contact lenses are not where they normally sit because I've never cried during a council meeting. And some of you know that I had my own little fair share of people coming to give their opinions where they opposed what I had to say, and similar to my colleague, you sit here, you listen, and you learn. And so again, please, um, I apologize in advance. Um, Mayor Pro Tem reached out to me and he said, 'Help me understand.' And just as he said, he said, 'Forgive me if these are questions, if they may seem insensitive or ignorant, but I really want to learn.' And I can safely assure you these were long conversations. Long conversations where we talked about where we are, where we've been, and why it's essential that we never go back there again. When I stand as a proud ally, I think of my friends who have been experiencing this kind of hatred and fear, even from their own families, their whole lives. One of my dear friends said, 'I knew I liked He-Man for a whole different reason than all my other friends at six years old.' And then he would hear his dad come home from the bar and say, 'This F-word hit on me and I beat him.' How is he ever going to say to his dad, 'Dad, I have something to tell you'? This pushed my friend into severe drug addiction to numb the pain of how to cope with difficult circumstances like this. I have heard from, um, friends that have been asked by other people, 'Are you sure you want to move to Palm Desert? Why don't you want to live in other cities?' especially because this is a non-Caucasian person and feeling that would add another type of pressure to it. In listening to some of the comments and emails, I was very touched when someone said, 'No more closets, no more shadows.' And they shared what it was like to not feel that they were seen at any age until the moment that they felt they could be safe and authentic. I was very proud to see a woman who took that chance to come out today. Whether people knew in her private circle or they didn't, this is a...
[03:45:00] Speaker: ...broadcast meeting and she took that risk of what that would do to her business. And now think of what that precedent sets in small communities where your housing, your job, your child care, and everything that keeps you alive depends on you staying quiet.
[03:45:22] Speaker: Someone mentioned, um, Matthew Shepard. I'm not sure if everyone knows or if my younger colleague is aware, not to be condescending, but there's just a lot of things that have happened. And he was a student at the University of Wyoming and on October 6th, he was brutally beaten and left to die. He died six days later on October 12th, which happens to be Columbus Day in Palm Desert. You know, acknowledging Columbus Day is a whole other issue. Let's put a feather on that. That led to his death from that severe beating, and it created change as people grew from these conversations and said, 'That's not okay, and we can't allow this hate to exist if we don't bring it up from the shadows and acknowledge it.'
[03:46:19] Speaker: In 2009, US Congress passed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act. They're hate crimes for a reason, because someone is resorting to such deep violence just at the fact that someone exists in their presence. And that's not okay either.
[03:46:43] Speaker: I have brought up on numerous occasions, even in our marketing committee, and said, 'Why are these ads in Palm Desert so heteronormative? Aren't you aware of the per capita spending of the LGBTQ community because it's cheaper to spend on your dog than to raise a child?' That's just simple economy.
[03:47:05] Speaker: We also hear about how this will hurt the Palm Desert brand. How many fabulous fashionistas are just sitting here all year that you've bought how much of your merchandise in Palm Desert El Paseo where you enjoy being here? And I hope that doesn't deter people because not every store owner feels this way. And we can't punish those people who are supportive, who do understand a safe space, at the expense of others because you want to send a message. I think you sent a message tonight.
[03:47:40] Speaker: Um, I've heard some of the comments about discrimination. And it may be something that falls out of our memory when we think about people being unable to adopt children. That it wasn't until the domestic partnerships were allowed where you couldn't even be present in the hospital room when your loved one was ill. You could be denied housing, insurance, and organ transplants if you didn't lie about what your underlying conditions were.
[03:48:16] Speaker: I'd forgotten about the military service and how 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' did not work. Um, the FDA finally, two years ago, revised their ban on allowing gay and bisexual men from donating blood. The whole world had already caught on, and you're going to test it anyway. As a 22-gallon donor, in the fine print, you know we're going to test it for all of these things. It's already getting tested, so why have that discrimination that cost millions of lives until that policy was changed?
[03:48:55] Speaker: We also need to recognize that there was a time and a place where saying something was 'gay' was an adjective to say it was inferior, it was silly, it was something that you didn't value. And even in my own family, even recently, I've had to poke that bear and say, 'That's not okay.' That is not okay, and it never will be okay. It never was, and it should never be accepted again.
[03:49:21] Speaker: As, um, my colleague mentioned about families that aren't supportive of their children as students. When I worked in higher education, there were several times where I had students come in and say, 'I don't know how I'm going to pay for tuition. I don't think I'm going to graduate because I'm still within the age threshold where I have to declare my parents' taxes and they will not give them to me. Why can't you stop being gay like your brother?' Just because one brother was able to suppress everything and go to a very...
[03:50:02] Council Member: Dark place in order to pay for his education doesn't mean anyone else should. Sometimes we were able to secure the exemptions that were required, and other times we're not. Your ability to love who you love shouldn't restrict where you live, what you can study. And I think that even though we had a pride banner, and I'll use it in quotations, because what we had last year was essentially, to me, a token act and a slap in the face. Because saying that the pride flag is there is not the same if they are in pastel colors, in pop-up little bubbles, and white text that was hard to read. Every single person that's here, and how many across the Coachella Valley, Southern California, and the world know that they are the bright primary colors. So yes, we have had an acknowledgement, but I don't feel that we have gotten to the point that we needed to respect our residents as we have now, finally, with that banner. This is an issue that's not going to go away because there will always be people that choose to remain uneducated and stuck within their beliefs of what's kept them there, of whatever many reasons. I'm not here to resolve that. I am here to use my position as an elected official, as a policy maker, to say, 'I hear you. I respect you, and I will act on your behalf.' I am hoping that my colleagues will separate the two issues, not as it was presented to combine them, because the first one is more specifically about the banner. But to say that we have always accepted everyone equally is perhaps creating a little bit of short-term memory loss when a few years ago, during the pandemic, I asked for an anti-Asian hate proclamation. And I was told by one of the council members, 'We don't have enough Asian people in Palm Desert.' And I said, 'Well, what about the people that work here? How many Filipinos are in the healthcare system? We can't ignore the people that work here, that visit here, not just the people that you choose to count in the census.' That was quite a contentious issue, and it even ended up as clickbait on KESQ. We can say we have these policies of inclusion that says, 'Can't we all just get along?' while at the same time really digging in. And I appreciate that my colleague, our mayor pro tem, said, 'Do I regret it?' No, you don't, because it means we are here. Because there are people that may be watching because they didn't want to come here, because they want to listen at home and try to absorb that on their own. For the people that didn't feel safe coming here, to know how many members of the community are advocating for them. And is that—are we taking these items separately?
[03:53:31] Speaker: Looks like it was introduced just as one item.
[03:53:35] Staff: The council can separate the two items if they want to have separate votes on the first resolution versus the second. I'd rather just treat it as one, but—
[03:53:43] Council Member: I prefer not to. I would prefer not to. The reason that I want to continue to discuss why they belong as two issues is because of the fact that, again, when we have that uniform language, it doesn't mean that we are acknowledging why we even needed to have it in the first place. When we discuss equity and civil rights, we have to acknowledge that we need to get comfortable with the uncomfortable conversations, or we're never getting through this. As it's been said many times tonight, cultural recognition for one group does not mean it will erase another. And it shows me that we still have people that are willing to pick and choose. You can't cherry-pick that you love commercialized Panda Express, but won't support a local Chinese restaurant while at the same time fetishizing Asian women. Those should not go there, but that is a trifecta that some people refuse to see. There are severe dangers in ignoring the truth. We've all heard, 'Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.'
[03:55:02] Speaker: And my cousin who lives in Berlin added, 'And those who do are doomed to watch them repeat it.' That's why I'm proud of every single one of you that took the time from the beginning, that are still here, and the conversations you will have after this for the people that could not attend. I think about the fact that I know here this isn't going to get to some folks, but when Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, he said, 'The Americans got it right' because of the extinction of Native Americans through the reservation system, because of the segregation laws, because of immigration restrictions, and race-based citizenship. Gives a little bit of a some déjà vu with that. Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences. And one other thing that I think that must be addressed is equality and equity are different. And it can be difficult for people to explain that they are not interchangeable. Equity would be like a teacher handing out one band-aid, identical band-aid, for every child and say, 'Make it to the end of the year.' Equality is understanding that one band-aid may not be enough for one child. The band-aid may need to be larger, or a child may be injured more than once. We need to say, 'How are we supposed to address and say, "Sorry, you used up your band-aid. I can't help you. You're just going to keep bleeding. You know, have your mom fix it at home."' When we discuss inclusion, we have to remember that it includes ADA, that it includes pregnancy as a protected category. I'm very happy that the city has a nursing room. Those are the small, unseen things that we acknowledge. We have to consider the inequity in the labor force. Because again, if we're going to talk about this being in a whole inclusive policy, we have to recognize that undocumented immigrants are the backbone of our economy because they are exploited labor. We know that there are people that are trafficked, and they are part of the people that don't get paid, and they say, 'Well, what are you going to do about it?' How many people have seen that change in what they see at the grocery store? If you're not seeing it in your bill, are you noticing it in the quality of your produce? Because people are afraid to go work in the fields and pick the crops that come to your table because they are afraid. The eradication of culture comes in many ways. Here, the primary support has come from the LGBTQ community. When we look back, this is an issue that's been going on for a long time. And if we go further back into the Americas, two-spirit, that's what you called people that were LGBTQ. Two-spirit meant you could understand both, and you held a sacred role in your community. We have destroyed that inclusion. We have destroyed that equity. And I think that we do need to take these separate issues because we need to make a distinction, not only about the banner, but the policy overall and how it is implemented. There have been a lot of great words. There have been a lot of great proposals, but I would rather see that this issue continue for community building. This shouldn't be just a fight of us when there are hundreds that are impacted. We have a civic engagement committee. We need to use the residents that are there. We need another study session, which by the way is something that we mentioned that we should probably have a study session. So, not only do I oppose the proposed resolutions, both of them, I feel that we should continue the item into a study session as we had mentioned in the beginning during our last meeting. Thank you.
[03:59:33] Chair: Council member Harding, do you have a comment you wanted, or should we go through everybody first? Okay. Gina.
[03:59:38] Gina: Okay. So, we all bring our unique life experiences, whether we're sitting on the council or we're here participating. And I've always strived to live my life by 'love thy neighbor.' And it is the biggest influence in my
[04:00:00] Speaker 1: ...life, as is religion for me personally. And I love our country. I love our community. I love my family. And I always tried to do the right thing.
[04:00:14] Speaker 1: And in terms of this issue, it pains me to see and feel how it's torn our community apart, and I do not like it. I don't. And I also don't like putting people into different groups of identity if it's going to be divisive, and that's what tends to happen when we put each other in these different groups. And so, maybe I have a Pollyannaish idea that we all are just one. We're all, whether we're residents of Palm Desert or a business, that we all want to work and do the best for each other. And so, when Mayor Pro Tem suggested that we just have a standard unified banner policy, I was open to discuss it. But then when I learn and hear how the gay community is still feeling as if they're marginalized, and it's tearing the community apart, I can appreciate all the comments. I do long for the day of Martin Luther King where it says, 'Judge me for my character, not the color of my skin.' And we could take 'color of my skin' to replace other marginalized groups. I do long for that day, but it seems as if that day is not today. Those are my comments.
[04:01:56] Speaker 2: Okay. Um, I am going to give my comments. Um, so, I want to again thank you all for coming. It's a great meeting. Went smoothly. Appreciate it. I intentionally actually withheld any public comments from Thursday till today on this issue, and that was by design. I also, forgive me, I didn't respond to any emails. My idea was just to lay low, let the comments come in, and let everyone know that I was open-minded and was welcoming to all public comments on the issue without putting my finger on the scale. To my mind, that is the way this process should work. That is, as an elected leader, we listen and discuss first, and then we make our judgments. And that's a far better path, I believe, than making a judgment first and not even listening at all, or maybe listening just in a perfunctory sense.
[04:02:53] Speaker 2: I also want to clarify a couple things. When Joe put forward his request for action, my intent—I had a very, very narrow focus on that. My intent was to just address the verbiage on Resolution 2018, to me is interesting and is worthy of consideration, but also my intent was to address or discuss or at least open the idea of whether or not it's appropriate or proper to use City Hall for any displays. In no way, shape, or form was this about canceling pride or erasing gays, which are some of the terms I've heard used towards me or towards maybe what I had intended. I want to just clarify that right now.
[04:03:34] Speaker 2: My only intent was to talk about whether or not it's appropriate to use City Hall as a place to hang banners. And this was brought to my attention, of course, during the month of November from residents who thought, 'Hey, you know, City Hall is looking like a billboard. Why don't we just revisit whether or not we want to do it at all?' And so, that was my idea and seconding what Joe put forward.
[04:03:58] Speaker 2: I can say over the last four days I've heard from people who I would never otherwise have heard of. They shared their stories with me via email, on the street, in person. We received several hundred emails as well. I'm sorry, they're still coming in, so I'm guessing we're about 200. And the response was overwhelming. There was no denying that the large majority of people want to keep the banner. I think only two of the emails that I read spoke in favor of bringing the banner down or, you know, rescinding the policy of keeping up the banner for Pride Month. So, that made a huge impact to me.
[04:04:37] Speaker 2: I can also say that many of their personal stories they shared were moving and compelling. I felt their hurt. I felt their fear. And I felt their need to have the banners displayed so they felt welcome in our city. I'm going to stop for a second. I want to—I do want to say that, in large measure, what Joe's describing as his vision, I—
[04:05:00] Mayor Treby: Agree with, in a this sort of utopia, I would consider it, where we don't need any distinction between all, but it's just one love. Everybody's—nobody's looking at each other thinking, 'You're different. You're different. You're different.' It's just a sort of an equal for everybody. To me, that's utopia. That's the—that's what we're striving for.
[04:05:18] Mayor Treby: That would be the ideal for me, and we just get on with our lives and worry about other things.
[04:05:22] Mayor Treby: Unfortunately, I don't think we're there yet. I don't think we're ready to move forward with removing a banner in this instance.
[04:05:31] Mayor Treby: I hear you loud and clear. I know that there's a community that needs that banner and needs the celebrations in order to feel safe and welcome in our city. I respect that, and I honor it.
[04:05:47] Mayor Treby: And it's with that in mind that my—I would vote, I'll tell you right now, I'm going to vote to maintain the banner on City Hall moving forward and continue to move with our policy of celebrating Pride Month as we have. So, that's where I stand on the issue.
[04:06:04] Mayor Treby: Do we need to address Karina's request? Or are there any more comments?
[04:06:09] Mayor Pro Tem Predetto: I can count some votes, and maybe the best thing for me to do is to make my motion and let it die of a lack of second, and we all go home.
[04:06:20] Councilmember: I think that's a grand idea.
[04:06:22] Mayor Pro Tem Predetto: I will move approval of staff recommendation—
[04:06:25] Mayor Treby: Hold on. Joe has made a motion to...
[04:06:30] Councilmember: And your motion is...
[04:06:33] Mayor Pro Tem Predetto: Staff recommendation.
[04:06:36] Mayor Treby: And is there a second?
[04:06:38] Councilmember: Wait, wait. The recommendation is to change the resolution. I do not support that. I will not support that. So, you want to take out 'celebrate difference and learn from each other.' Is that accurate?
[04:06:54] Mayor Pro Tem Predetto: I'm making a recommendation for both because it sounds like everyone's opposed to it, so it'll die of a lack of a second.
[04:07:01] Councilmember: So, you just want us not to second your motion. Is that what you're saying? So, can I put in a substitute motion to leave the ordinance as status quo?
[04:07:12] Mayor Treby: Yes, I believe. Leave them as it exists today, you're saying.
[04:07:16] Councilmember: Correct.
[04:07:18] Mayor Treby: Okay. We have a motion, but there's no need for a substitute motion because there's no second of the motion.
[04:07:23] Councilmember: Right. I just wanted to confirm. It sounded like no on a negative motion, so just to clear that.
[04:07:28] Mayor Treby: Let me just be really clear. Councilmember Predetto has made a motion to accept staff's recommendation, and there is no second, so the motion fails. If you'd like to substitute or have a new motion, you can do that.
[04:07:41] Mayor Pro Tem Predetto: Withdraw.
[04:07:52] Mayor Treby: There could be a motion to take no action.
[04:07:56] Councilmember Harnik: I would move to take no action on the resolutions as they exist presently and take no action to leave them alone as they are currently worded.
[04:08:10] Councilmember: I second.
[04:08:10] Councilmember: Second that motion.
[04:08:13] Mayor Treby: Okay.
[04:08:14] Clerk: Okay.
[04:08:16] Clerk: Councilmember Harnik?
[04:08:17] Councilmember Harnik: Yes.
[04:08:18] Clerk: Councilmember Nishiguchi?
[04:08:20] Councilmember Nishiguchi: Yes.
[04:08:20] Clerk: Councilmember Kitanishi?
[04:08:22] Councilmember Kitanishi: Absolutely, yes.
[04:08:22] Clerk: Mayor Pro Tem Predetto?
[04:08:25] Mayor Pro Tem Predetto: No.
[04:08:25] Clerk: And Mayor Treby?
[04:08:28] Mayor Treby: Yes.
[04:08:28] Clerk: Motion passes 4 to 1.
[04:08:53] Mayor Treby: Meeting's adjourned at 5:30. Thank you, sir.